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In Reply to: RE: Playing with NCore NC400 Class D posted by pictureguy on October 16, 2014 at 11:53:23
I'm still trying to figure all this out. While I like the NCore much more than the ICE amps I've owned, the main reason I see for going Class D is efficiency. You know, lots of power in a small cool running package.
I have yet to hear a sonic reason for going Class D. That's not to say the NCore NC400 doesn't sound excellent, but I'm still experimenting to determine if it can match my simple tube amp or traditional class AB solid-state amp. It's definitely closer than ICEpower.
Follow Ups:
I ordered the Hypex NCore NC400 Audio Power Amplifier Regular Mono Block today.
I have been researching & thinking about going from my Bricasti M1 DAC direct to my power amp with no pre-amp for a while. It seems everyone has a different opinion on this complex subject. As many people have already suggested, you never know the "answer" until you listen for your self with your system and room.
I borrowed the "Hypex NCore NC400 Audio Power Amplifier Regular Mono Block" and connected my Bricasti M1 DAC direct (no pre-amplifier) to the Hypex NCore NC400 and listened. After several hours of listening, I have decided that, for me, going direct from the DAC to power amplifier sounds great to my ears. In addition, in my opinion, the Hypex NCore NC400 Audio Power Amplifier Regular Mono Block sounds much better than my Luxman L-590ax integrated amplifier.
I ordered the Hypex NCore NC400 Audio Power Amplifier Regular Mono Block from James Romeyn Music and Audio, LLC. He was very helpful in answering my many questions about the Hypex NCore NC400 power amplifier ($1,900). See:
http://jamesromeyn.com/#/home-audio-gear/hypex-ncore-nc400-build-service-on-time-or-free-build/
My new Ncore NC400 power amplifier should arrive in about two weeks and I will return the loaner to my friend.
I was wondering how come i didn't see this before , until i noticed the posts dates ..:)
Congrats on the leap Howgief , what speakers are you using on the NC400 ..
Regards
I am using Sonus Faber Olympic II Speakers.
Last night I changed my mind and cancelled the order for the Ncore NC400. INSTEAD, I ordered two new Hypex NCore NC400 BTL (Bridged Tied Load) mono blocsk, Hypex SMPS1200 (1200W) power supply (same as NC1200 power supply), Siliconray chassis "RE-2507-NC" same as Stereo chassis, top panel cooling vents, Neutrik gold contact XLR fully balanced input only, natural brushed aluminum faceplate (no logo), rear panel toggle switch near top (up = play, down = input mute/4W idle), 8.5 lbs/ea.
I discussed this with James and decided it was worth the extra money to get the bridged Ncore mono block amplifiers.
It's hard to see how the $1000 cases previously mentioned could be all that much better.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich
"the main reason I see for going Class D is efficiency"
They are efficient but that is not at all why I would go for them. For me, its the sound. First, they are absolutely quiet with no noise coming from either the amps or from the speakers...almost like your system is turned off.
Second, with the NC1200s, the bass in my room was outstanding. It had a great balance of fullness, depth, and impact. The damping factor is very high and in other systems, with other speakers and/or rooms, this may result in a lessening of the bass compared to conventional amps but in my room, with my speakers, it sounded really good.
Finally, the NC1200s are one of only a few amps I have heard that portray sufficient tonal density for my tastes. People talk about how "neutral" these amps are but do not mistake that for thinness. They are tonally saturated, which is a characteristic that I believe makes some compare their middle frequencies to tubed amps.
The high frequencies were not quite as good as with a pair of $17K Class A monos I used to own, but not many amps are.
Ergonomically, I like that they are small and can easily be placed in racks, or even behind the speakers, and especially that they can remain turned on all the time.
Enjoy your continued audition.
Sensible points. I find my $1200. nCore 400s have a much different 'sensation' than all the ICE designs that I've auditioned at home with the exception of the Rowland 500 (now redesigned 525?). Don't know enough to say if its the ICE supplies or the implementation/design but with the ICE versions I noticed my shoulders clinched up unlike with the PS Audio, Rowland, NuForce SE, and mostly the nCore. The method or degree of filtering could be the issue but I just can't say.
It maybe just me but I found my body doing the same thing at a recent audio show where digital was the source.
What I noticed sonically with my first switching amplifier, the PS Audio, was subjectively detailed bass and the complete lack of congestion with increasing volume compared to my A/B amps. IMO this is the fundamental difference in class D presentation that many have issues with. To be clear this is in comparison with similar priced solid state A/B amplifiers.
I find the nCores powering a pair of Avalon Acoustics Monitors a perfect match in my small recording studio. The presentation is relentlessly plate glass transparent, perfect for monitoring and absolutely not for casual listening.
I'm still in the dark as to why the Hypex 1200 series iterations have become so costly.
I'm having a little trouble with your sentence structure.
You LIKED the PSAudio, Rowland, NuForce in addition to the NCore?
The PSAudio GCC series of integrateds used UNModified ASP modules from B&O. They INCLUDE an on-board switching PS and have output taps for OTHER non-powered modules. That feature makes bi/tri amping fairly easy, provided you have a line-level crossover!
I replaced a GCC250 with Parsound separates and even without counting inflation, spent 10% less.
Factor in inflation, the full-feature set and the cost advantage of todays rig approaches 30%.
Too much is never enough
My first introduction to switching power amplifiers was the PS Audio HCA-2. My solid state went in for an upgrade and I purchased the PS Audio intending to return during the trial period but I ended up keeping it. Regardless of what sourced components were used in the HCAs design it was the overall uniqueness of a switching amplifier that grabbed me.
Shortcoming or not it was the HCA that forced me to upgrade my VAC circuits and not use any silver cabling. This experience made it clear that switching amplifiers are not simply plug and play which may be the reason so many have failed to hear their virtues.
It wasn't until I purchased a pair of proprietary designed NuForce SEs that I was able to begin to compare at home and hear class D differences including ICE equipped amplifiers. NuForce also designed the copper cabling that I currently use with the nCores and that worked very well with all the other switching amplifiers that I have auditioned.
I had the HCA-2...couldn't wait to get rid of it. Bass worked well on my friend's Apogee Grand's subwoofers...but that was it. We tried it on the panels and were shocked how bad it sounded compared to the Sphinx Project 14 hybrid amps that normally did the duty.
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