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The VPI integrated amp has been recently reported on the Asylum and I just read about the (oil cooled) hybrid amp by Vandersteen at the NY show. And not that long ago Bryston introduced a line of speakers.
So I wonder if this suggests a new trend with more brands offering something closer to total systems? My impression has been there have been few successes with multi-component lines in recent years. But obviously some companies seem willing to broaden their offerings.
How do you view their likelihood for success?
"You can’t know what the “best” is unless you have heard everything, and keep in mind that given individual tastes, there really isn’t any such thing." HP
Follow Ups:
With a complete system you hear what the company is after - you effectively hear "their sound." I like the approach because it serves as a baseline and if you wish to alter it with a brighter amp or beefier speakers or whatever that's up to you. But with the heads of these companies they are audiophiles who build stuff. And I'm sure many of them get frustrated when they see their speakers say being demonstrated with some amplifier they think sounds dreadful and their speaker gets blamed.
Another reason is that the market has a LOT of competition and branching out to other things to sell probably helps lower sales volumes.
Back in January 2013 Stereophile and a couple others posted a paragraph on Vandersteen M7-HPA monoblock amps. Pics are all over the net too.
2013 has come and gone, and 2014 is almost history. Yet, I see no sign of an amplifier product anywhere on Vandy's website. Is this just a concept statement product that will never see the light of day like concept cars at auto shows? Is the M7-HPA actually for sale after being mentioned nearly 2 years ago?
As for Bryston, if their speakers sound anything like their amps, I won't be buying one anytime soon. ;-)
Cary Audio had a line of speakers for a short while and they flopped. I auditioned a pair over a decades ago at a brick & mortar store and bought Tannoys instead. But I love Cary electronics!
Meridian seems to have pulled it off with a successful line of electronics across the board including speakers. But I really don't know who Meridian caters to these days. High end home theatre?
I have DIY SEAS Froy3 speaker which use the SEAS Excel magnesium drivers w/ copper phase plug, and have used them with AES (Cary) tube amps and found the match quite remarkable. The Cary speakers likewise used the SEAS Excel drivers in there line of speakers, so I imagine they sound great too. That being said, I've never heard Tannoy speakers w/ Cary electronics so that may be better.
Quad, Naim, Rega, Audio Note, Linn and maybe others offer/offered source, electronics, speakers outside of their main type of component. Perhaps it is a British thing?
"You can’t know what the “best” is unless you have heard everything, and keep in mind that given individual tastes, there really isn’t any such thing." HP
I think the Vandy amp was designed to exclusively work with Model 7s. I don't know that it will even match to the other Vandy speakers with powered bass sections (Quatro and 5A). So, it's a pretty exclusive club that could even use the product, and those few owners will certainly learn of the amp when they purchase the speakers.
Meanwhile, the Vandersteen website is only slowly updated.
.
RV does the website maintenance himself! Certainly he does not inve$t in it. I remember reading he thought there were better uses of his time.
Abe,
It looks like Meridian is more into car audio these days, contracting with the likes of Ferrari, McLaren, Land Rover, and Jaguar.
I seem to remember that years ago Meridian got burned pretty badly when it was discovered that a high end home theater multi-channel processor that they were hawking was actually a re-boxed (and much cheaper) unit that was manufactured by another company - but I could be dead wrong about this - so I apologize in advance if that's the case.
Cheers,
Al
It was Lexicon
Thank you for the correction.
I'm getting old :-(
Cheers,
Al
This is precisely why we've never made a speaker over the years. Other speaker manufacturers would not be recommending our amps and preamps.
Will I recommend VPI or Vandersteen in the future? I like Harry and Richard, they both have been nice to me, but if I send a customer to them, do you think they might want to try to sell them an amplifier?
I know there's a lot of guys here that like to stir things up tongue in cheek but let me remind you Vandersteen has been in the amplifier business since 1982 with the powered 2WQ subs, The lower bass section of the Quattro, Five series and Seven as well.
This is no difference here except, instead of an amplified speaker, he has given the customer a choice. Any amplifier can still be used with the Model Seven.
If the customer listens to them and prefers the M7-HPA, he can go for it. Nothing has changed except for having one more option. The M7-HPA has power conditioning internally, very high quality pure silver speaker wire and acoustic isolation built in which is included for 52K
Its a lot of money but brings a lot to the table and the consumer will decide. Vandersteen is no fool and I am sure he gave this a lot of thought and it sure must have cost a lot to develop such a unique amplifier.
JohnnyR Vandy dealer.
That actually makes sense from the maker and dealer perspective.
Still from a consumer perspective it is nice to know what the manufacturer's sonic aesthetic is. For many years I heard Roksan amplifiers connected to "whatever" the dealers happened to sell and I didn't much care for anything they made UNTIL I heard them on Roksan speakers with a Roksan CD player with Roksan Turntable. Perhaps 15 years went by and I said "Hmm so that is what Roksan is about - that is the sound they're after."
Bryston was usually connected to PMC loudspeakers as they shared importers in Canada and the UK - so you could get a pretty good idea that both companies pretty much had the pro monitor PMC/Bryston sound in mind. Some will like it some won't but at least you knew what both of them were after.
And of course there is the other reason - dwindling amplifier sales or dwindling turntable sales may motivate companies to branch out and sell other products in a relatively stiff market.
-but its a good way to continue the dwindling sales.
You are very correct about the politics. I believe Avalon became allied with Jeff Rowland and the sales pf both plummeted. Same thing when CJ bought out Sonographe,: ditto for Spica being bought out by PArasound,
--
and at $52K you have nothing to worry about.
Silly indeed. When I think about VPI (TT), Vandersteen (speakers) and Bryston (very powerful amps). These companies should stick w/ their strong-suits.
There just trying to make a buck in a shrinking market.
Not the impact I would've expected frankly--heard them twice now with the 7's
and the sound was disappointing--the Speakers previous with ARC came alive.
Des
I agree.
Besides with that amp you would have to do oil changes, I wonder if you can use synthetic oil.
Edits: 10/01/14 10/01/14
Not sure who else - considering that, in addition to what Bryston itself stands for, these speakers were conceived in collaboration with Axiom.
Please give us your thoughts on Axiom.
And that would be what?
You must have some history in mind that I'm not privy to. How about a clue?
Tnx, Rick
Wow, such harsh words about Bryston, I'm a little surprised. I haven't heard recent stuff but have been listening to a 4b for 35 years and it sounds excellent. There may well be better out there but I certainly haven't heard what's being described here. Have they changed considerably?
Dave
"Have they changed considerably?"
I wouldn't know, I don't recall ever having heard one. Naturally that means I've formed no opinion either. I was just curious what Carcass was referring to.
Rick
Under your post was not the right place for my response.
Dave
Rhetorics about "low distortion" and "accuracy" lurking there somewhere, too.The only thing that's sadly missing is the actual sound quality, to correlate with the asking price.
PS: regarding history:
- See review below, especially Manufacturer's Comments;
- At one time, I bought a mint used BDA-1 DAC, shortly after it was released, as potential upgrade for PS Audio D-Link III I had at the time. Got rid of it in couple of weeks, thankfully without losing money - the improvement over 1/3 the cost DLIII was truly marginal.
Edits: 09/30/14
So you think Chris Russell said something wrong in his comments? Which part of his comments has displeased your critical audiophile's sense and sensibility?
If it wasn't for JA's measurements Stereophile would be on the same level as most mags, web reviewers and commentators and guys like you.
Nobody disputes usefulness of Stereophile measurements - it's the lack of their correlation with sound quality in some cases that's the problem, which is manifested so profoundly in that Bryston review.Regarding Russel's comments - they are certainly no more wrong than your question about them. The difference, I think, is that you genuinely do not understand what the problem is - and he only pretends to.
Edits: 10/01/14
I think it's the horrid sound quality of Bryston amplifiers that offends sensibilities, audiophile and otherwise......
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
How true, don't tell Elizabeth.
OK,
I don't really see where you are coming from re measurements. You apparently believe that the manufacturer is compromising performance for "better" measurements and while you may be right, it's not obvious to me.
Just to be clear, I DO regard measurements as absolute necessities if we wish to understand and control electronic systems. We simply don't have the proper sensors to perceive clearly what's going on electrically without using test equipment.
The magic is knowing how the electrical behavior maps to aural perception...
Rick
.... I certainly believe it to be the case with Bryston.
I suspect the lack of reference, and overabundance of "ideology", when it comes to sound, is the problem with that company. It's almost like the only reference they have is their own products - which, while hopefully is not really the case, would explain a lot.
"It's almost like the only reference they have is their own products"
Darn good point. However I suspect most companies do keep an eye on their competition. In my (non-audio) consumer electronic days I know we sure did but it's easier to screw up than you might suppose. The trouble is it's often difficult to know just why folks are buying (or not) your stuff. Naturally my first thought was brilliant engineering but I learned to keep a more open mind, eventually... Assumptions and ego are powerful forces. So they may indeed be doing exactly what you suggest: I've seen it, been there and done that.
In general I am not impressed with "high end audio" as it's often overpriced bling. That's virtually by definition since as I eventually learned (some of us are slow) "high end" clearly refers to price not performance, they are Veblen goods. It's telling that the leading disparagement by far on AA is "cheap".
On the other hand, beyond loving to listen to music at home, I find the very crankiness of our systems (in other words the extreme sensitivity of our aural detection and processing) to just be fascinating. If we really understood it well and knew the extent of it's variations then we would have a chance to could come up with truly meaningful specifications. If we also had a handle on the levels and probabilities of various power line conducted crud and local EMF then we might be able to buy just from looks and Specs. without it being such a crap shoot...
Now THAT would be real high end audio!
Dreamer Rick
Bryston is a respected brand by many and I suspect they offer solid, reliable products. My only experience hearing them has been at shows, mainly paired with Magnepans. I've never come away impressed or musically satisfied.
I guess it is not just me.
"You can’t know what the “best” is unless you have heard everything, and keep in mind that given individual tastes, there really isn’t any such thing." HP
I have heard Bryston Integrated amps with PMC speakers, the amps sound harsh and are very overpriced. I would not want a Bryston Integrated at any price.
I can think of three brands/manufacturers that I respect for their build quality, and have always wanted to like, but simply can't based on every time I've auditioned their gear.
Bryston
Classe
McIntosh
Just to offer a different perspective. I was just at the NY show. One of the best sounding rooms was the Muraudio speakers driven by Bryston amps.
Art Dudley liked them also.
--Ze'ev
It's their small amp, the 2BLP. I used to own one and it did not sound cold and clinical, but rather on the warm side of "neutral". So long as you can get by on only 60 watts per channel, it's a good choice.
But, of course, amp/speaker synergy is key...
I have a 30 year old pair of them. They still sound very good.
--Ze'ev
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