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Hi, in Pro gear, does anyone have any feedback on Crown, Lab Gruppen, and QSC amplifiers? The Crown is 500w costing only 500 quid, I tried it and liked it, it actually kep up with my AR Ref 110 (with KT120s). Power hungry panels do better with more power, and the Crown was pretty good (the panels I was auditioning on were Analysis Audio, which do better with more power, and have a straight 8ohm impedance).Wanted to know what other pro gear gems are out there. Also how do these compare to the likes of Rogue amps?
I have a Lampizator Dac Level 5, going to 7, looking at the Analysis Audio, which is a power hungry straight 8ohm impedance planar, and would like to keep a valve pre if that works
Kedar
Edits: 09/22/14Follow Ups:
Then what does that say about the sound of the ARC reference 110? I have yet to hear a pro sound amp that sounds anywhere nearly as good as the best high end amps.
I have run Apogees and Acoustats in the past, both relatively tough loads, and we heard dramatic differences between amps and preamp with these speakers. The Analysis planars have the same qualities so you should be hearing a big difference between these two amps and if not then the ARC is not what its cracked up to be.
Try a big push pull triode amp, such as a VAC Renaissance 70/70 or the Antique Sound Labs Cadenza DT (60 watts push pull with 845 triodes), or a BAT VK75. OTL monoblocks from Atma-sphere will work well, especially the MA-1s or a pair of used Tenor 75W OTLs.
The Analysis react better to more power, not to impedance control like apogees or acoustats. They have straight 8 ohm impedance. The more power you can give them, the better they sound. The ARC was far less power
Kedar
Wow, there is a lot of misinformation on this thread! Pro amps are just as diverse as audiophile amps and don't have a house sound or common construction or specification.
I used a Crown XLS 2500 on Magnepan 1.7s and it ran cool, quiet and sounded good at a great price and has a 3-year transferable warranty. I sold the 1.7s and still use the amp with some JBL Professional speakers. There is no "magic" here though.
Like any component, try to buy from a dealer that offers returns in the event it doesn't work out in your system. How it works for you is what matters.
I've read great things about "vintage" BGW amps.
Some of them are supposed to sound as good as any "hi-fi" SS power monsters.
I had a 250B at home for a while. I never heard it playing, i bought it for very cheap with the matching preamp; the preamp was faulty and I didn't dare to try the power amp, because I could see it had been repaired in a suspicious way; but the construction was very very nice. I sold them on ebay, defect, for 4 times more than what I paid for them.
I would try to locate one if I were in need of big power AND good sound for not too much cash.
I've also heard stories of BGWs starting to emit acrid smoke when connected to QUAD ESLs.
Hence I'd be somewhat wary of using them to drive planars.
You might be on to something. On the other hand, pro audio amps are often designed with different criteria in mind. The most reliable ones won't fart if you accidentally drive it into a 2 ohm load at full power. But that's often at the expense of "hi-fi" sound quality. Can y'all say "global negative feedback"? ;)
However, unlike what another poster wrote, you don't always get what you pay for (especially in the hi-fi world). Does a $10,000 amp with a cool-looking faceplate and a blue meter sound better, or just different, or neither, than a $1,000 amp? Asthetics - visual appeal - has a lot to do with price. I think you get that.
I say you should continue to explore your idea. But, as always, LISTEN to them, preferably with a good source and good speakers. Then, YOU be the judge. After all, the amp is for YOU. Don't be sucked into the myth that more expensive automatically means "better", unless you're insecure. To paraphrase my grandfather: "An amp by any other name is still an amp". :)
To your list, add Yamaha. Offhand, I don't know if Crest is still around, but they also used to make some good pro amps.
The problem with considering pro amps for hi-fi use is that they aren't ever publicly put into a home hi-fi system for auditioning or for review. So, you really have to do your own homework. I'm familiar with QSC and Yamaha in sound reinforcement settings, and they're great (even though the sound guy was clueless). But I've never heard them in a home hi-fi. See what I'm sayin'?
Marketing is a fascinating world. Advertise in one arena, and that's where your business will come from. Advertise in a different arena, and that's where your business will come from.
I don't know about Crown's current (hehe, "current", get it?) offerings, but their vintage stuff like the DC300A and their next gen stuff is not hi-fi material.
:)
We used the Crown dc300 for years in our recording studio. The main reason was not there sound but you could run them 24/7 year after year and they would never fail. Sounded decent enough but nothing special
Alan
Yeah, you could do the same with a Bogen or Rauland. I installed many of them in schools, factories, etc. back in the day. It wouldn't surprise me if many of them are still working these 40 years later, 24/7/365.25.The Crown was "a crown" in its day and age. There wasn't much competition until Ampzilla, Crest, Threshold, Matti Otala and John Curl came onto the stage.
:)
Edits: 09/23/14 09/23/14
Used DC300A with good results in several different systems and had a few opportunities to compare in those systems to flavor of the day hifi amps.
otherwise, they are closed in and hard sounding. The first gen Fairchild ICs were pretty ragged.
Bought at a garage sale with one chanel putting out DC. Had friends at Crown who brought is up to last production spec.
The FIRST electronics company I worked for, STATEK, used a DC300 to drive the Vibration Test Table.
This was about '76 or so.
Too much is never enough
Thanks. Yes, I am quite convinced it's better than my audio research for driving power hungry speakers. I also am aware of the ridiculous profit margins in audiophilia. However wanting to know pitfalls from those who auditioned more extensively or those who have done any mods. Lowering fan noise is fun. Not sure if caps and resistor mods can better it?
Kedar
Even with power hungry speakers, 95% of the time you are listening to the first few watts, how those are delivered separates the cigar and slippers crowd from the beer and cigarette crowd. Decide which crowd you're a prt of, then pick your speakers, then pick the amplifier which fits the speaker and room.
Don't expect miracles. Nobody who develops pro amps listens to them, or designed them, to be used with electrostats or magnetostats.
Then again, listening to rock and soul on electrostats can leave something to be desired, regardless of the amplifier used.
May be not used with 'stats but many are designed to potentially drive four 8ohm drivers in parallel giving a load of below 2 ohm.
Yeah, fan noise can be an issue. You would do well to look into that. Some are always on, some not. Some are noisy, some are well-designed.
:)
Try this one:
http://www.mc2-audio.co.uk/s800.html
Not cheap (£1700, about $2800) but more than worth it.
Or one of their T series for less cash.
They are all stable into 2 Ohm unless bridged.
Thanks for all the feedback guys. Does this MC2 have a noisy fan that can be removed? Heard some people removing fans in Crown and QSC.
Kedar
On some of the Crowns you can press fit new fan blades with a different blade pitch so they are quieter
The fans only kick in when needed, are variable speed and very quiet.
I've got three of theirs and it's never been an issue.
I owned a Crown amp long ago. I'll echo what others have voiced. There is no magic here. They produce cheap power, not quality power.
I had a pair of Samson brand pro amps that were OK for rear channel surround amplification which is what I used them for many years ago in a Home Theatre setup. They were cheap and powerful.
Unfortunately, they sounded cheap and powerful! Very harsh and grainy in my main two channel stereo system. Horrible!
You get what you pay for. If loud and watts per dollar/pound in what you want go pro sound. If quality sound is the goal look elsewhere. Of course we don't know the rest of your system so..............
ET
Hi edited my post to add the rest of my gear. I am not looking at these from purely a perspective of saving money, checking to see if these are indeed giant killers
Kedar
OK I gothca, planers need power. But no, I'd still pass on pro sound. Remember the difference between 100 watts per ch and 300 per ch is less than 6dB. Don't get me wrong, I have efficient speakers (91dB) and bi-amp with 250/ch LF and 100/ch HF and understand the need for power and headroom.
Look for good used deals which are better here in the states and shipping to the UK will add a lot. Good luck.
ET
I've been using an MC2 Audio S1400 for several months:
(1) as a subwoofer amp (below 80 Hz) in an all-TAD system,
(2) as a LF amp in a 3-way system (below 200 Hz), and
(3) as a full-range amplifier with a pair of Tannoy System 215 DMT II.
I prefer the S1400 to the Bryston 7B-SST2 I used to own and, by a smaller margin, to the McCormack DNA-500 that I still own. And it's far less expensive than either.
Mostly the fans are not an issue, but I am considering the possibility of installing quieter ones.
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