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In Reply to: RE: Anyone heard the Audible Illusions L3 line stage? posted by mbnx01 on August 11, 2014 at 10:31:24
I never considered Audible Illusions because of their funky separate dual volume controls. Who wants to *&ck with that? And reports that they run the tubes hard and require frequent replacement.
According to their L3 Linestage specs "The L-R Balance Controls are Precision Stepped Attenuators". So does this mean one can turn each Balance Control knob 'down' in order to reduce overall gain?
The Cary SLP-05 has two level controls (L & R) which can be 'turned down' in order to give more range to the main Volume control.
Not sure if the L3 setup effectively does the same thing.
Follow Ups:
Three attenuators.
I own an Audible Illusions Modulus 3B and a Modulus 3A. I have never had problems with either preamp and never had tube failures or tubes that didn't last at least 3 years. The problem is that people use tubes that aren't recommended for the AI preamps
I use the factory 6h23neb tubes with zero problems. I am very used to the 2 volume controls so that was never a problem for me. Their preamps are very musical and it's doubtful you will find another full featured tube preamp with a great phono section and a very generous amount of inputs and outputs for anywhere near their 3900.00 asking price..
"Far away across the field
The tolling of the iron bell
Calls the faithful to their knees
To hear the softly spoken magic spells."
"Their preamps are very musical and it's doubtful you will find another full featured tube preamp with a great phono section and a very generous amount of inputs and outputs for anywhere near their 3900.00 asking price.."
Another option in that general price range is the Cary SLP 98P. Four inputs, dual outputs, remote (volume and mute), plus excellent phono stage for this price range. For me it has responded very well to NOS tubes, improving the sound considerably. You can pretty much voice it to your tastes.
It has the dual channel gain controls (for balance) in addition to the master volume. As Abe pointed out this allows you to control the sensitivity and range of the master volume. I love that feature. I haven't worn out a tube yet in four years. Preamp tubes should get you close to 10 years depending on usage. If the AI unit burns through tubes quickly that sounds like a design flaw.
Their preamps are very musical and it's doubtful you will find another full featured tube preamp with a great phono section and a very generous amount of inputs and outputs for anywhere near their 3900.00
I have no doubt that their preamps are musical as many owners love them. For me, I prefer a full featured linestage with multiple balanced and RCA in/outs, full function remote control for Volume Up/Down, Mute, Input Select, Power On/Off (or Standby). Call me lazy but I don't want to get up out of my listening chair and walk over to the preamp to adjust two volume knobs let alone one such knob. ;-)
I had excellent results with the reasonably priced Aesthetix Calypso and it responded well to tube rolling.
And reports that they run the tubes hard and require frequent replacement.
Maybe pushing one dual triode per channel for 30 db of gain is the reason!
AI runs the plate voltage around 125Vdc and 4-5mA per side.
The plates are in parallel thus lowering the Pdiss from 1.5w/triode to 1w/triode. Also reduces the rp in half but doubles Miller C.
The Vp further derates 150V 1.0ma - one side.
Phillips Data Sheet Normal Values: 90V - 100v, 15mA per side 1.5w - one side used.
Only Russian tubes will survive.
I spec. my AIs out at around 75Vdc and 8-9mA per side. Any tube will last it's expected life.
I have yet to have a single tube failure - other than a couple that failed right out of the box. I also like the stepped attenuators but wish the gain was lower
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
..about Audible Illusions preamps being hard on tubes?
I believe I've even seen some tube dealers recommend certain tube types specifically for Audible Illusions due to faster than typical wear.
I'm not talking about tube 'failure' but 'wear'.
The reports are NOT unfounded! The only 6922 tube I'll guarantee in AI gear is the 6922 EH (a.k.a. 6H23P-EB).
I've received far too many emails from customers about how their rare old stock tubes were shot after a month, a few weeks, etc. It's a real issue.
Kevin Deal of Upscale Audio also recommends specific 'heavy duty' tubes for the 'troublesome' Audible Illusions preamps.
6H23 Type 3 - Also called a 6H23P-EB. This is one of the most durable 6922 types we have. It is very clear in the mids. Not as warm as the type 2. But if you have had trouble with noise or you own a difficult preamp, this is the tube for you. We used to supply these to the Audible Illusions factory for production back in the day.
This tube and the Type 2 are the only 6922 tubes we recommend for Audible Illusions, CAT, and other troublesome preamps. Until recently when we found a nice stash of Matsushita 7DJ8 which kick ass.
Kevin Deal recommends the Russian 6H23-EBs that I've been using but I've also used others including Tungsrams and Matsushitas with no problems. I suspect it may have somehing to do with the vintage of the units in question but that's just conjecture. In any case - my exprience would seem to belie some of those reports.
I have some pretty well used tubes that do not seem to show signs of "wear"
As usual - YMMV
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
I suspect it may have something to do with the vintage of the units in question but that's just conjecture.
The only difference, from the 2 series up are the number of regulated supplies, which are all identical in design except for the 2A.
The 2A uses a TIP50 NPN for regulation.
The 2B > current production uses an IRF712 FET.
Wheezer,
I have read that you know the AI products very well. Is there any real difference between the L2 vs. L3? Sound quality specifically?
I've not heard or seen the L3. Therefore, I cannot comment as to it's sonic signature nor any similarities to it's predecessor.
They all, previous and current models sound very good, even in their stock form. There are sonic "similarities" across the individual lines.
My knowledge goes to the design and implementation of the circuitry.
Sorry I couldn't answer your question.
FYI - as stated above and in the manual, stock units only get Putin's 6922s.
Cheers,
W
Changes to the power supply, I believe.
"The problem with quotes from the internet is that many of them are just made up."
-Abraham Lincoln
Did you ever try some new ones just to see if the old ones have degraded sonically?
I went through a few sets of tubes with my M3a.
indeed
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
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