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Speaker Asylum: Straightening out the mess Thorsten leaves behind... by villastrangiato General speaker questions for audio and home theater. |
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In Reply to: RE: To set the record straight on this antique JBL stuff... posted by Thorsten on July 13, 2012 at 07:57:57:
Thorsten said regarding Floyd Toole's objective regarding constant directivity of loudspeakers :
"Really, would you care to substantiate this with with a citation from the actual paper (including page/chapter) where he says that this is the ONLY option?
I've read various papers from Toole and distinctly remember him using the words "carbon copy " to describe frequency response measured far off axis in comparison to that measured on axis or close to on axis. I said nothing about "ONLY OPTION" so cut the projection crap. But since you challenged me on this very basic concept - I'll direct your attention to figure 25 on page 14 here:
http://www.harmanaudio.com/all_about_audio/loudspeakers_rooms.pdf
Once again, I'll reiterate for other potential readers here - constant direcitivity in the context of a loudspeaker indicates response lines off axis that are essentially the same as the on axis response only shifted down a few db in sensitivity. One should see what looks like a number of parallel lines that extend out to about 60 degrees. This is a speaker that possesses constant directivity - NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH CONTROLLED DIRECTIVITY WHICH THORSTEN CLEARLY HAS DONE. The 075 bullet tweeter is a narrow directivity(+/- 20 degree) high output tweeter capable of 110 db at 1 meter and 1 watt. It was never intended to be used in people's living rooms and anyone who suggests it for such an application is totally clueless. The poor, uneven off axis response at frequencies it was intended by JBL to be crossed up to the D130 at are precisely the problems Toole has focused on in his papers - such as the one linked to above.
The internet is a great place to gather and share information. Unfortunately, any idiot can link to someone's website or paper and claim that they know what is being said. In the process, it is not unusual for the idiot to twist or misinterpret what is being said and then disseminate that misinterpretation widely on forums such as this.
Thorsten also said:
"Who is talking near field listening? Stick to the topic."
Most living rooms, based on the wavelengths generated in audio systems, constitute the near field zone. Scan Speak, a prominent loudspeaker manufacturer, has dedicated itself to designing and building some of the best loudspeaker drivers for this environment - the low sensitivity 8530K being a prime example. The two drivers you brought into this discussion were never intended for home use. They were designed to be used in large spaces and in public address applications where far field conditions dominate. None of the virtues you have tried to describe for them have any use in a home listening environment. Their performance is exactly the opposite of what Toole lists in his papers as design objectives for home use. I've been staying on topic. You on the other hand have not. Perhaps you should heed your own advice or better yet, see a psychiatrist for your various neuroses and projection issues.
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Topic - Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Belgarchi 18:51:03 07/8/12 ( 80)
- RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Tom Brennan 13:46:13 07/10/12 ( 0)
A well known DIYer used that one... - Presto 09:00:34 07/10/12 ( 1)
- RE: A well known DIYer used that one... - Belgarchi 16:50:29 07/11/12 ( 0)
RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - rkeman 07:43:20 07/10/12 ( 0)
The old Dynaudio 15W-75 and 17W were known to do some of the best mid-bass in a dynamic driver - cfb 06:11:53 07/10/12 ( 0)
One of my favorites... - mkuller 19:47:37 07/9/12 ( 0)
Dare I include the big Acoustats? - Ozzie 12:44:30 07/9/12 ( 1)
- RE: Dare I include the big Acoustats? - DKL 18:52:37 07/9/12 ( 0)
Ahh...semantics. I thought you were going to discuss one octave of bass. - jeffreybehr 11:02:36 07/9/12 ( 1)
- Thanks, you are right... - Belgarchi 16:55:53 07/11/12 ( 0)
RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Presto 08:59:53 07/9/12 ( 0)
I'm sure it's quite good - badman 07:45:54 07/9/12 ( 0)
RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - villastrangiato 05:00:58 07/9/12 ( 47)
- AE woofers - Scholl 18:16:34 07/13/12 ( 1)
- RE: AE woofers - huynguy.enlatoi1988@gmail.com 20:34:16 07/13/12 ( 0)
RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Belgarchi 10:30:08 07/9/12 ( 44)
- RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Thorsten 04:51:21 07/10/12 ( 40)
- RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Belgarchi 05:32:40 07/11/12 ( 39)
- RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Thorsten 06:47:36 07/11/12 ( 38)
- ,,,and the enclosure size needed for large woofers... - Belgarchi 10:21:45 07/11/12 ( 1)
- RE: ,,,and the enclosure size needed for large woofers... - Thorsten 10:57:03 07/11/12 ( 0)
- You forget the response in the mids..... - Belgarchi 09:58:04 07/11/12 ( 34)
- RE: You forget the response in the mids..... - Thorsten 10:42:54 07/11/12 ( 21)
- That would most likely deliver... - E-Stat 17:59:10 07/11/12 ( 20)
- RE: That would most likely deliver... - Thorsten 05:23:44 07/12/12 ( 19)
- Do you find that - E-Stat 06:12:10 07/12/12 ( 18)
- RE: Do you find that - Thorsten 08:43:51 07/12/12 ( 17)
- To set the record straight on this antique JBL stuff... - villastrangiato 13:00:15 07/12/12 ( 8)
- RE: To set the record straight on this antique JBL stuff... - Thorsten 22:52:45 07/12/12 ( 7)
- RE: To set the record straight on this antique JBL stuff... - villastrangiato 05:11:37 07/13/12 ( 6)
- RE: To set the record straight on this antique JBL stuff... - Thorsten 07:57:57 07/13/12 ( 5)
- Straightening out the mess Thorsten leaves behind... - villastrangiato 07/14/12 07:04:28 07/14/12 ( 4)
- Getting minimum acoustic sense into this mishmash of false dogma... - Thorsten 08:15:57 07/14/12 ( 3)
- ugh - villastrangiato 10:06:05 07/14/12 ( 2)
- RE: ugh - Thorsten 10:46:17 07/14/12 ( 1)
- double ugh - villastrangiato 11:48:57 07/14/12 ( 0)
- Ah, narrow directivity tweeter - E-Stat 09:06:57 07/12/12 ( 7)
- RE: Ah, narrow directivity tweeter - Ozzie 11:31:31 07/15/12 ( 3)
- RE: Ah, narrow directivity tweeter - Thorsten 00:01:45 07/16/12 ( 0)
- RE: Ah, narrow directivity tweeter - villastrangiato 13:21:58 07/15/12 ( 1)
- RE: Ah, narrow directivity tweeter - Thorsten 00:20:05 07/16/12 ( 0)
- RE: Ah, narrow directivity tweeter - Thorsten 09:17:45 07/12/12 ( 2)
- RE: Ah, narrow directivity tweeter - E-Stat 09:27:05 07/12/12 ( 1)
- RE: Ah, narrow directivity tweeter - Thorsten 10:04:55 07/12/12 ( 0)
6 - 7 octaves if you're into low fi... - villastrangiato 10:35:18 07/11/12 ( 11)
- RE: 6 - 7 octaves if you're into low fi... - Thorsten 11:16:34 07/11/12 ( 10)
- RE: 6 - 7 octaves if you're into low fi... - villastrangiato 13:01:50 07/11/12 ( 9)
- RE: 6 - 7 octaves if you're into low fi... - Thorsten 13:30:22 07/11/12 ( 8)
- Double face palm time, yet again... - villastrangiato 18:00:23 07/11/12 ( 3)
- RE: Double face palm time, yet again... - Thorsten 05:34:47 07/12/12 ( 2)
- Are you as deranged as your posts suggest? - villastrangiato 08:19:59 07/12/12 ( 1)
- RE: Are you as deranged as your posts suggest? - Thorsten 09:43:54 07/12/12 ( 0)
- Never saw measurements proving your 'point.' - Belgarchi 16:34:50 07/11/12 ( 3)
- RE: Never saw measurements proving your 'point.' - Thorsten 05:22:30 07/12/12 ( 2)
- I think - Presto 11:28:05 07/12/12 ( 1)
- RE: I think - Thorsten 11:44:45 07/12/12 ( 0)
Actual measurements "small vs. big midbass"... - Thorsten 06:56:46 07/11/12 ( 0)
RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - John Elison 23:45:51 07/9/12 ( 2)
- RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Belgarchi 10:14:33 07/11/12 ( 1)
- RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - John Elison 07:51:20 07/14/12 ( 0)
JBL D130 - Thorsten 01:54:36 07/9/12 ( 5)
- Do you know of any plans for the JBL D130 as a 2-way with a wave-guide tweeter? - Frihed89 21:54:48 07/10/12 ( 1)
- RE: Do you know of any plans for the JBL D130 as a 2-way with a wave-guide tweeter? - Thorsten 22:09:53 07/10/12 ( 0)
RE: JBL D130 - Ozzie 12:40:16 07/9/12 ( 2)
- RE: JBL D130 - Thorsten 20:35:45 07/9/12 ( 1)
- RE: JBL D130 - Ozzie 07:32:05 07/10/12 ( 0)
RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - hahax@verizon.net 23:07:53 07/8/12 ( 7)
- RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Disbeliever 23:43:01 07/13/12 ( 0)
RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Belgarchi 10:33:10 07/9/12 ( 5)
- How are you using it? - caspian@peak.org 12:10:30 07/9/12 ( 4)
- RE: How are you using it? - Belgarchi 16:45:23 07/11/12 ( 0)
- RE: How are you using it? - Belgarchi 16:53:51 07/9/12 ( 2)
- Everybody has their "best" for certain reasons... - villastrangiato 18:09:12 07/9/12 ( 1)
- RE: Everybody has their "best" for certain reasons... - Belgarchi 18:24:22 07/9/12 ( 0)
RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - DanWilson 19:35:26 07/8/12 ( 5)
- RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Inmate51 12:38:32 07/9/12 ( 1)
- Well, "bass" is the "base" of music - caspian@peak.org 11:01:55 07/10/12 ( 0)
...and now it's 'midbase'! :-) Dan, that should be 'midbass'. (NT) - jeffreybehr 11:06:08 07/9/12 ( 2)
- RE: ...and now it's 'midbase'! :-) Dan, that should be 'midbass'. (NT) - Wojciech 19:55:06 07/10/12 ( 1)
- RE: ...and now it's 'midbase'! :-) Dan, that should be 'midbass'. (NT) - Scott L 12:53:55 07/12/12 ( 0)