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Speaker Asylum: RE: 6 - 7 octaves if you're into low fi... by Thorsten General speaker questions for audio and home theater. |
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In Reply to: 6 - 7 octaves if you're into low fi... posted by villastrangiato on July 11, 2012 at 10:35:18:
Hi,> Similarly, use of large drivers (12- 15 inch) has serious drawbacks
> when implemented in two ways and crossed over from 1500 hz up.Not really. It has some fundamental design requirements that need to be understood, considered and implemented, as has every engineering project under the sun.
> Wide variations in off axis response when transitioning from an
> oversized driver to a tweeterAre an indication of very poor design.
Let us take an example of a good design, that originally derived in the mid 40's from german designs but moved beyond the original.
In this case we have a driver that is coaxial and uses the cone as waveguide.
(an interesting aside, in the 1980's then new Cepstral analysis and extensive listening confirmed the cone shape originally derived from german designs as one of the absolute best waveguides, over all the the then and even now fashionable "CD" geometries)
This driver has a near constant directivity index between 500Hz and 5KHz, above 5KHz DI increases and below 500Hz (depending on box size and mounting) it decreases.
When mounted and placed correctly the system has a flat on and off axis response from the LF Cutoff to around 5KHz with a falling off axis response above 5KHz.
The driver in question BTW is a 15" 2-way Tannoy coaxial from the same era as the JBLD130.
> (whether a five inch crossed at 3.8khz or a 15 inch crossed at 1.5khz)
> kills imaging performance.Actually, using a driver/system with insufficient DI is what kills imaging, or large changes of DI over a narrow bandwidth.
The problem you suggest can only happen in hamfisted designs turned out by those who fail to understand the first things about speaker performance and design.
BTW, once you understand the action of the D130 Cone system you will understand why it actually offers a 40Hz-6KHz usable bandwidth with a pretty flat power response (that is integrating on and off axis response) and in fact a rather flat response at the listening position, without needing massive room treatment to control the reverb caused by poor speaker directivity.
Ciao T
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Topic - Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Belgarchi 18:51:03 07/8/12 ( 80)
- RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Tom Brennan 13:46:13 07/10/12 ( 0)
A well known DIYer used that one... - Presto 09:00:34 07/10/12 ( 1)
- RE: A well known DIYer used that one... - Belgarchi 16:50:29 07/11/12 ( 0)
RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - rkeman 07:43:20 07/10/12 ( 0)
The old Dynaudio 15W-75 and 17W were known to do some of the best mid-bass in a dynamic driver - cfb 06:11:53 07/10/12 ( 0)
One of my favorites... - mkuller 19:47:37 07/9/12 ( 0)
Dare I include the big Acoustats? - Ozzie 12:44:30 07/9/12 ( 1)
- RE: Dare I include the big Acoustats? - DKL 18:52:37 07/9/12 ( 0)
Ahh...semantics. I thought you were going to discuss one octave of bass. - jeffreybehr 11:02:36 07/9/12 ( 1)
- Thanks, you are right... - Belgarchi 16:55:53 07/11/12 ( 0)
RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Presto 08:59:53 07/9/12 ( 0)
I'm sure it's quite good - badman 07:45:54 07/9/12 ( 0)
RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - villastrangiato 05:00:58 07/9/12 ( 47)
- AE woofers - Scholl 18:16:34 07/13/12 ( 1)
- RE: AE woofers - huynguy.enlatoi1988@gmail.com 20:34:16 07/13/12 ( 0)
RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Belgarchi 10:30:08 07/9/12 ( 44)
- RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Thorsten 04:51:21 07/10/12 ( 40)
- RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Belgarchi 05:32:40 07/11/12 ( 39)
- RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Thorsten 06:47:36 07/11/12 ( 38)
- ,,,and the enclosure size needed for large woofers... - Belgarchi 10:21:45 07/11/12 ( 1)
- RE: ,,,and the enclosure size needed for large woofers... - Thorsten 10:57:03 07/11/12 ( 0)
- You forget the response in the mids..... - Belgarchi 09:58:04 07/11/12 ( 34)
- RE: You forget the response in the mids..... - Thorsten 10:42:54 07/11/12 ( 21)
- That would most likely deliver... - E-Stat 17:59:10 07/11/12 ( 20)
- RE: That would most likely deliver... - Thorsten 05:23:44 07/12/12 ( 19)
- Do you find that - E-Stat 06:12:10 07/12/12 ( 18)
- RE: Do you find that - Thorsten 08:43:51 07/12/12 ( 17)
- To set the record straight on this antique JBL stuff... - villastrangiato 13:00:15 07/12/12 ( 8)
- RE: To set the record straight on this antique JBL stuff... - Thorsten 22:52:45 07/12/12 ( 7)
- RE: To set the record straight on this antique JBL stuff... - villastrangiato 05:11:37 07/13/12 ( 6)
- RE: To set the record straight on this antique JBL stuff... - Thorsten 07:57:57 07/13/12 ( 5)
- Straightening out the mess Thorsten leaves behind... - villastrangiato 07:04:28 07/14/12 ( 4)
- Getting minimum acoustic sense into this mishmash of false dogma... - Thorsten 08:15:57 07/14/12 ( 3)
- ugh - villastrangiato 10:06:05 07/14/12 ( 2)
- RE: ugh - Thorsten 10:46:17 07/14/12 ( 1)
- double ugh - villastrangiato 11:48:57 07/14/12 ( 0)
- Ah, narrow directivity tweeter - E-Stat 09:06:57 07/12/12 ( 7)
- RE: Ah, narrow directivity tweeter - Ozzie 11:31:31 07/15/12 ( 3)
- RE: Ah, narrow directivity tweeter - Thorsten 00:01:45 07/16/12 ( 0)
- RE: Ah, narrow directivity tweeter - villastrangiato 13:21:58 07/15/12 ( 1)
- RE: Ah, narrow directivity tweeter - Thorsten 00:20:05 07/16/12 ( 0)
- RE: Ah, narrow directivity tweeter - Thorsten 09:17:45 07/12/12 ( 2)
- RE: Ah, narrow directivity tweeter - E-Stat 09:27:05 07/12/12 ( 1)
- RE: Ah, narrow directivity tweeter - Thorsten 10:04:55 07/12/12 ( 0)
6 - 7 octaves if you're into low fi... - villastrangiato 10:35:18 07/11/12 ( 11)
- RE: 6 - 7 octaves if you're into low fi... - Thorsten 07/11/12 11:16:34 07/11/12 ( 10)
- RE: 6 - 7 octaves if you're into low fi... - villastrangiato 13:01:50 07/11/12 ( 9)
- RE: 6 - 7 octaves if you're into low fi... - Thorsten 13:30:22 07/11/12 ( 8)
- Double face palm time, yet again... - villastrangiato 18:00:23 07/11/12 ( 3)
- RE: Double face palm time, yet again... - Thorsten 05:34:47 07/12/12 ( 2)
- Are you as deranged as your posts suggest? - villastrangiato 08:19:59 07/12/12 ( 1)
- RE: Are you as deranged as your posts suggest? - Thorsten 09:43:54 07/12/12 ( 0)
- Never saw measurements proving your 'point.' - Belgarchi 16:34:50 07/11/12 ( 3)
- RE: Never saw measurements proving your 'point.' - Thorsten 05:22:30 07/12/12 ( 2)
- I think - Presto 11:28:05 07/12/12 ( 1)
- RE: I think - Thorsten 11:44:45 07/12/12 ( 0)
Actual measurements "small vs. big midbass"... - Thorsten 06:56:46 07/11/12 ( 0)
RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - John Elison 23:45:51 07/9/12 ( 2)
- RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Belgarchi 10:14:33 07/11/12 ( 1)
- RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - John Elison 07:51:20 07/14/12 ( 0)
JBL D130 - Thorsten 01:54:36 07/9/12 ( 5)
- Do you know of any plans for the JBL D130 as a 2-way with a wave-guide tweeter? - Frihed89 21:54:48 07/10/12 ( 1)
- RE: Do you know of any plans for the JBL D130 as a 2-way with a wave-guide tweeter? - Thorsten 22:09:53 07/10/12 ( 0)
RE: JBL D130 - Ozzie 12:40:16 07/9/12 ( 2)
- RE: JBL D130 - Thorsten 20:35:45 07/9/12 ( 1)
- RE: JBL D130 - Ozzie 07:32:05 07/10/12 ( 0)
RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - hahax@verizon.net 23:07:53 07/8/12 ( 7)
- RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Disbeliever 23:43:01 07/13/12 ( 0)
RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Belgarchi 10:33:10 07/9/12 ( 5)
- How are you using it? - caspian@peak.org 12:10:30 07/9/12 ( 4)
- RE: How are you using it? - Belgarchi 16:45:23 07/11/12 ( 0)
- RE: How are you using it? - Belgarchi 16:53:51 07/9/12 ( 2)
- Everybody has their "best" for certain reasons... - villastrangiato 18:09:12 07/9/12 ( 1)
- RE: Everybody has their "best" for certain reasons... - Belgarchi 18:24:22 07/9/12 ( 0)
RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - DanWilson 19:35:26 07/8/12 ( 5)
- RE: Best Mid-Bass of All Times! - Inmate51 12:38:32 07/9/12 ( 1)
- Well, "bass" is the "base" of music - caspian@peak.org 11:01:55 07/10/12 ( 0)
...and now it's 'midbase'! :-) Dan, that should be 'midbass'. (NT) - jeffreybehr 11:06:08 07/9/12 ( 2)
- RE: ...and now it's 'midbase'! :-) Dan, that should be 'midbass'. (NT) - Wojciech 19:55:06 07/10/12 ( 1)
- RE: ...and now it's 'midbase'! :-) Dan, that should be 'midbass'. (NT) - Scott L 12:53:55 07/12/12 ( 0)