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Vinyl Asylum Welcome Licorice Pizza (LP) lovers! Setup guides and Vinyl FAQ. |
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Vinyl Asylum Welcome Licorice Pizza (LP) lovers! Setup guides and Vinyl FAQ. |
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In Reply to: Hold on. posted by Stale on September 11, 2006 at 10:40:46:
StaleA:
Based on your posts, I am getting more and more confused:**"(whereas the Rega, its just higher resolution in general". Holly crap, if RB250 is better in resolution than your other setups that how bad are your other setups. RB250 is not resolution arm, even less on P2, it is more of a musical type arm?!?**
It doesn't sound like you're that familiar with the RB250. Or other tonearms. The reason the RB250 has consistently been applauded for 2 decades is -because- it is a very well engineered tonearm (rigid, one piece casting, etc). Compared to the spindly, gangly, cheaper SAU2 or TP13a arms found on the Connoisseur and Thorens, the RB250 most certainly should give one the impression it will extract more information than those other arms. If not, it would be the SAU2 and TP13a that everyone is putting on their Gyrodecs, their Xerxes, etc etc. I can say without doubt the RB250 is indeed extracting more information out of the grooves than my SAU2 and TP13a. But so can a CD player. That doesn't make the CD player "musical". And if you say the RB250 is a musical arm (I dont have enough experience with these arms to say otherwise), then I'd like to know where the problem is. Because my P2 is anything but musical.
**You also say that Rega is more authoritative, quicker, more bass, more spacious, ... but than you do not like timbre and say it is not musical? **You are correct, sir.
**Maybe it is just cartridge tonal balance that you do not like. **No, timbre has nothing to do with tonal balance. It's not the table being too bright or too dark in general, or bass/mid/highs. It's the natural tonal characteristics of the instrument. To give you an example.... cymbals are a good test for timbre. If it sounds a bag of wet rice being smacked against the pavement, you have poor timbre. If it sounds like the metallic sheen of a cymbal, you have good timbre. You can have an overall dark sound (tonal balance), and still have good timbre.
**(Although I do not understand how something be "higher resolution in timbre". Timbre in my opinion does not posses resolution.)**See my definition above.
**(Hey, if stock RB-250 sounds that way to you, than you would be floored by RB300 or modded RB250, but that is another story)**
? I don't recall giving the impression that I was that impressed by the RB250. I'm sure an origin live modified RB250 would cure my problems with the deck, but personally, I'd rather buy a better deck. I'm not afraid of spring suspensions....
**"and more like a CD than a good analog" - what do you mean like CD, I have yet to hear Rega that sounds like typical CD. Even their CDs don't sound like typicall CD.**What do I mean "like CD"? All detail, analytical sound, no PRAT, no groove, no "musicality". I've heard CD players that were more musical and engaging than this P2.
**P2 with glass platter is better version, so good so far. But that tells me that you got it used.**I think the fact that I said it was purchased used in my original msg should also be an indication.
**So is everything OK, from the arm, bearings, spindle and spindle ball bearing, belt, motor, wiring? **
Well, as I wrote in my original msg, I dont know how to check that! I've asked several times about this, and gotten dozens of responses to my post, but no one informed me how to check if the arm, bearings, spindle and spindle ball bearing, belt, motor wiring is ok!
Maybe if it turned out one of these things was off, I'd find it isn't an inherent problem with the Rega, but with its condition. Buying stuff used, you never know, do you.**Did you get new or used cartridge?**
As mentioned elsewhere, the cart was new. The cart is beautiful, gorgeous, and it isn't the problem. I tried another cartridge before on this P2, same thing, not musical.
**If used it may be shot, if new it takes time to settle. (BTW, this is my favorite, being cheap on table and spending on cartridge, and now you do not want to spend on commercial tweaks. Don't assume that you actually hear $3-400 cartridge on $4-500 table. That you spent $300 more on table and $300 less on the cartridge you would be better off.)**Well, I'm sure I'm not the first to put a $400 cart on the RB250. But point taken, I also believe that Tiefenbrun wasn't drunk at the time he came up with the "source first" idea.
**From your posts it seems that you did not use that same cartridge on all the tables in the comparison? Is that true? If it is, what did you realy compare?**
Yes, that's correct. I compared overall sound. I can do that, because I know my other tables, I know their character. I've put many cartridges on them before. That changes things "somewhat", but not their essential character. Plus, I used another cart on the P2, it didn't change its unmusical character either.
**For VTA, it is hard to say visually that you are 1 mm off, arm being parallel is not an indicator alone, and with tapered arm like Rega is even harder (close to impossible) to judge. You may be +/- few mm.**
True, and I always like to setup by ear anyway. But as I mentioned, you can only RAISE vta on the Rega. if I need to lower VTA, that too is close to impossible.
**You do not have to like P2, there is lot of better tables, and there is quite a bit of trade off in that price range, and table itself is very basic and in line with the price range, each table/arm in that price range has its own sound, maybe you just others suit your taste, but based on your statements that something is waaaay off.**
I'm not yet convinced that the P2 is really that bad. Many years ago I've owned others in its price range (Revolver, Systemdek IIX), I dont recall them being so cold and uninvolving, musically speaking.
**(Or your definition of musicality is much different than mine).**
Just for a reference, I believe I'm going by the standard of musicality set by companies like Linn and Naim. Which is to say, if you find the music more engaging, the equipment is more "musical". Which is why you can have high rez (say, American) high end systems, and you go over to your friend's place, who has a much more modestly budgeted system, which hides details that you can hear on yours, and yet you find yourself enjoying your music better on his system.
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Follow Ups
- Re: Hold on. - Sylvian 11:23:21 09/11/06 (1)
- Re: Hold on. - Stale 15:37:38 09/11/06 (0)
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