it's virtually impossible to find acoustic suspension speakers these days. i became an audiphile ONLY when a friend's $120 infinity 4 1/2" minis with the polycell tweeters circa 1985 amazed me with their imaging and freedom from bass distortion even if they were rolled off. i'd listened to a bunch of speakers at 3 different shops before that and just was never impressed until i heard little woofers thump with speed.
my last pair of speakers were the mostly nice sounding energy RC-10s. they have tons of resolution and speed and nice imaging with aluminum domes that don't have any "ping", but like 2 of the other two acoustic suspension speakers i've owned, suffered from scrawny cabinets that resonate. the RC-10s are actually ported, but i bought them, like my former mission M-71s, came with foam port plugs. after i sold them, i heard them in the middle of a showroom on a nice cambridge labs system with their ports unplugged and was amazed at how liquid they sounded compared to use on my panasonic SA-XR class D receiver. the cabinet resonance was subdued too, but the bass had slowed and muddied as ported speakers do.
if only the RC-10s had solid cabinets like my decent NHT superzeros, i could have lived with them for the rest of my life. the energy RC-10s, mission M-71s along with my 8" 2 way celestion dittons all had great sound with nice to outstanding tweeters in the case of the RC-10s, but all had resonant cabinets that drove me nuts to hear them.
my superzeros stomped all of them in the cabinet resonance department and in imaging specificity too, though not in the bass or treble departments. superzero soft domes just aren't that resolving. they soften metallic percussion greatly and sound downright mushy on vintage NAD gear. i could barely detect a difference between the sound of my sony DVD player and the panasonic's internal DAC with them where the insanely revealing and quick RC-10 minis clearly revealed that the sony was overly polite in the treble (big surprise their... NOT!) and had a trace of grain too while the panasonic DAC had tons more treble speed and air with a slightly clinical sound.
i've also owned a pair of radioshack aluminum cabinet minis that had decent though not high end sound, but have yet to hear a truly satisfactory pair of acoustic suspension minis. i auditioned a pair of NHT's 3 way classic 3s, and they don't have any cabinet resonance, image like crazy and have tons of speed top to bottom and top end air and sparkle. just as with my previous reviews based experience with the RC-10s, M-71s & even superzeros though, i don't consider them to be "the best giant killers under $1,000". they suffer from a slight but annoying aluminum ping resonance. they're great sounding, but i just couldn't live with the aluminum signature.
yesterday, i started reading speaker reviews and stumbled across role kayak minis for $750 (http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/1005/nearfield8.htm) that were mostly favorably reviewed, but was put off by the mention of a boxy sound in one round of shootouts it nearly won. i also read a favorable review for expensive ATC SCM-11 2 ways (http://www.whathifi.com/atc/scm-11-2013/review) that are probably the best candidate i'm aware of for my next pair of minis, but i'd really like to find something with at least a ring radiator tweeter or better yet a titanium or aluminum one that's resonance free or best of all a plnar or ribbon. i love percussion and get annoyed when HF transients are softened just as i do bass transients with ported and large woofers.
i drool over speakers like YG acoustics, magicos and dunlavys, but those are well beyond my means. i just can't see why there isn't a manufacturer who doesn't compromise the sound of their acustic susension minis with either inferior resonant cabinets or resonant/low res drivers. had the RC-10s merely used better cabinets, they would stomp anything i've ever owned, but the less revealing superzeros get the nod for transparency in the cabinet realm.
i also used to lust after infinity's modulus minis with their 5 1/4" woofers and emit tweeters even if they were something like $1,200. i once started making installments on a pair of infinity 6 1/2" 2 ways with emit tweeters only to find the shop i was buying them from closed out and empty when i was going to pay them off. those sounded really nice even if they had foam surrounds.
so... does anyone know of any other acoustic suspension minis out there i should look into? search results pretty much only bring up NHT. i'm familiar with M&K though they seem a bit expensive, especially with poly woofers if they still even make acoustic suspension. i was horrified to see that they've sold out to ported speakers now like my old schjool infinity and boston acoustics favorites.
if there's a company making 5 1/4" or smaller two ways with effortless and lightning fast tweeters that are resonance free, i'd love to hear about it. other than gambling on ATC soft domes, all i can think of is buying a pair of ported 2 ways with solid cabinets like axiom's well reviewed millenia M2 and plugging their ports and gambling on a midbass bump. i love the sound of dayton's (MB quart) titanium domes BTW and have a pair in some 12" two ways i refurbed. they have the speed that soft domes don't in my experience with a slightly softer sound than aluminum for a very nice compromise.
for what it's worth, the 12" 2 ways i built using a 3,500hz crossover and the dayton tweeters i had lying around sound surprisingly good with no audible cabinet resonance and much better midrange than i'd imagine but suffer from a foreward midrange because the woofers are a few dB more efficient than the tweeters and have a very low level "stutter" distortion in the midrange at low levels like the woofer is stopping for a milisecond repeatedly in it's excursions. the distortion is less objectionable or audible than aluminum ping or cabinet resonance and pretty much disappears at volume, but adds a slight artificial sound to vocals. if i had to guess, it's caused by individual strands of coil clearing the woofer's (350w rated) massive magnets or could be related to the stiff doped accordion surrounds.
there has to be some manufacturer building high value 2 ways with solid cabinets and top quality drivers. if only golden ear made acoustic suspension instead of passive radiators, i'd get those because of their folded ribbon tweeters.
i loved the lightning fast totally uncolored sound i heard out of a pair of magnepan MG-12s on an italian tube amp and had considered MMTs, but hate the sound i've heard out of their larger "tin foil sounding" speakers despite the speed and resolution, ESPECIALLY in the bass department.
if anyone knows of other acoustic suspension minis out there, preferably under $1,000, i'd be grateful for a head's up. i'm thinking that in the long run i might just have to build a pair myself. i just can't abide by ported speakers. "if it's ported, it's distorted" as i like to say. infinity minis were the first time i ever heard a bass drum thump like it should.
If it's ported, it's distorted.
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Topic - hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - budget minded 15:41:54 08/05/14 (132)
- Did anyone mention Phil Jones yet? - Doublej 16:16:51 10/03/14 (0)
- $1,500 KEF LS50 (ports plugged) seems to be what i'm looking for - budget minded 14:29:37 09/08/14 (0)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - fantja 03:57:36 08/28/14 (3)
- RE: infinity and emit - budget minded 14:35:56 09/08/14 (2)
- I Still Run Infinity RSIIb and LOVE Them - Maxamillion 06:06:33 10/04/14 (0)
- i meant modulus - budget minded 14:39:57 09/08/14 (0)
- it's looking like i'll just have to build my own minis - budget minded 19:10:05 08/27/14 (0)
- Transmission line measures like sealed box, I'm told... - genungo 12:35:47 08/11/14 (3)
- RE: Transmission line measures like sealed box, I'm told... - hahax@verizon.net 16:33:28 08/11/14 (2)
- RE: Transmission line measures like sealed box, I'm told... - budget minded 18:13:25 08/27/14 (1)
- Whatever you say... - genungo 19:30:02 08/27/14 (0)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - Doublej 13:11:22 08/10/14 (0)
- sonance 622c 6 1/2" 2 ways with 1" cabs are unavailable - budget minded 14:51:46 08/09/14 (5)
- RE: sonance 622c 6 1/2" 2 ways with 1" cabs are unavailable - rmahoney 15:53:02 08/12/14 (1)
- RE: boston speakers - budget minded 18:18:57 08/27/14 (0)
- RE: sonance 622c 6 1/2" 2 ways with 1" cabs are unavailable - hahax@verizon.net 20:45:29 08/09/14 (2)
- RE: thin cabinets - budget minded 18:25:39 08/27/14 (1)
- RE: "... the MOST important test of any speaker isn't listening to it, it's the knuckle test." - genungo 03:39:35 08/28/14 (0)
- Has anyone mentioned Selah yet - Doublej 14:41:35 08/09/14 (6)
- another crazy expensive brand... sigh - budget minded 14:58:35 08/09/14 (5)
- "If it's ported, it's distorted". But so are inexpensive sealed systems, make up your mind - Edp 09:21:34 08/11/14 (1)
- RE: "you gotta pay to play" - budget minded 18:33:08 08/27/14 (0)
- Selah Audio Anniversario (compact sealed version) is $1495... - genungo 15:07:19 08/09/14 (2)
- RE: Selah Audio (has some really nice drivers but $$$$) - budget minded 18:42:01 08/27/14 (1)
- Selah Audio speakers can be had for under $1000... - genungo 19:21:19 08/27/14 (0)
- THESE were the first "acceptable" speakers i ever heard - budget minded 14:24:33 08/09/14 (0)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - Bill the K 20:26:32 08/08/14 (1)
- i liked the cambridge speakers i listened to once - budget minded 14:29:13 08/09/14 (0)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - rick_m 17:58:38 08/08/14 (1)
- RE: plugging ports & sealed speaker availability - budget minded 14:43:39 08/09/14 (0)
- Vintage Yamaha - Scholl 08:28:59 08/08/14 (6)
- RE: Vintage Yamaha - budget minded 14:40:28 08/08/14 (5)
- RE: Vintage Yamaha - Scholl 14:03:55 08/09/14 (1)
- RE: Vintage Yamaha - Crazy Dave 13:42:25 08/13/14 (0)
- RE: Vintage Yamaha - Crazy Dave 14:49:08 08/08/14 (2)
- listening to a Vintage Yamaha NS10 on the street - budget minded 15:37:30 08/08/14 (1)
- RE: listening to a Vintage Yamaha NS10 on the street - Crazy Dave 13:40:01 08/13/14 (0)
- ATC, gallo, sonnance & role audio sound most interesting - budget minded 17:29:51 08/07/14 (7)
- A dealer friend might still have a prev-gen trade-in pair of Gallos to sell - John Marks 07:19:22 08/08/14 (1)
- RE: A dealer friend might still have a prev-gen trade-in pair of Gallos to sell - budget minded 14:42:45 08/08/14 (0)
- Since you say you prefer "revealing" speakers... - genungo 06:31:23 08/08/14 (1)
- RE: Since you say you prefer "revealing" speakers... - budget minded 14:47:25 08/08/14 (0)
- RE: ATC, gallo, sonnance & role audio sound most interesting - Robert J 03:38:47 08/08/14 (2)
- i'm not buying yet, just researching - budget minded 14:49:42 08/08/14 (1)
- RE: i'm not buying yet, just researching - genungo 03:49:13 08/28/14 (0)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - RGA 10:36:32 08/07/14 (47)
- Didn't He State "Preferably Under $1000" - geezerrocket 06:48:51 08/09/14 (11)
- RE: Didn't He State "Preferably Under $1000" - RGA 12:05:38 08/09/14 (10)
- RE: Didn't He State "Preferably Under $1000" - longtimequadowner 12:52:34 08/10/14 (1)
- RE: Didn't He State "Preferably Under $1000" - RGA 14:53:35 08/10/14 (0)
- USED audionote K speakers? (not keen on used) - budget minded 13:43:33 08/09/14 (7)
- RE: USED audionote K speakers? (not keen on used) - RGA 17:16:55 08/09/14 (0)
- RE: (not keen on used) - genungo 14:08:22 08/09/14 (5)
- In my (limited) experience... - rlw 07:28:01 08/10/14 (0)
- RE: (not keen on used) - budget minded 15:07:30 08/09/14 (3)
- RE: (not keen on used) - genungo 17:00:50 08/09/14 (2)
- RE: going to be saving quite a while actually - budget minded 18:49:36 08/27/14 (1)
- RE: "pick your distortion" - genungo 03:51:29 08/28/14 (0)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - Bob Neill 16:29:25 08/08/14 (4)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - RGA 18:56:30 08/08/14 (3)
- will add audionote to my mental list of sealed makers - budget minded 13:46:37 08/09/14 (2)
- RE: will add audionote to my mental list of sealed makers - RGA 17:30:58 08/09/14 (1)
- RE: auditioning speakers - budget minded 18:52:57 08/27/14 (0)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - hahax@verizon.net 13:22:22 08/07/14 (29)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - E-Stat 14:17:43 08/07/14 (28)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - hahax@verizon.net 19:54:33 08/07/14 (12)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - E-Stat 20:09:16 08/07/14 (11)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - hahax@verizon.net 20:26:15 08/07/14 (10)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - E-Stat 20:34:26 08/07/14 (9)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - hahax@verizon.net 20:55:51 08/07/14 (8)
- Sorry to step on - E-Stat 06:06:29 08/08/14 (7)
- RE: Sorry to step on - hahax@verizon.net 06:17:05 08/08/14 (6)
- you'll never win the argument , even using facts - budget minded 15:07:27 08/08/14 (5)
- RE: you'll never win the argument , even using facts - hahax@verizon.net 20:41:21 08/08/14 (4)
- RE: isobaric clarity - budget minded 13:53:47 08/09/14 (3)
- RE: isobaric clarity - hahax@verizon.net 20:51:11 08/09/14 (2)
- RE: "ultimate system" - budget minded 18:56:49 08/27/14 (1)
- Get a Clue... - genungo 04:21:13 08/28/14 (0)
- so far, ATC SCM 7 or 11 look best too me, except $$$$ - budget minded 15:31:07 08/07/14 (14)
- NHT and Gallo - longtimequadowner 18:50:48 08/07/14 (0)
- RE: 1/2" MDF? - genungo 16:01:10 08/07/14 (12)
- RE: 1/2" MDF? unacceptable! i'd get superzeros again before that - budget minded 17:07:53 08/07/14 (11)
- RE: "I'd get superzeros again" - genungo 19:33:40 08/07/14 (10)
- RE: "I'd get superzeros again" - merid 03:31:07 08/10/14 (0)
- i'd rather improve on superzeros though - budget minded 15:26:12 08/08/14 (8)
- RE: i'd rather improve on superzeros though - longtimequadowner 18:42:50 08/08/14 (4)
- RE: i'd rather improve on superzeros though - merid 13:12:36 08/10/14 (2)
- RE: i'd rather improve on superzeros though - longtimequadowner 15:40:00 08/10/14 (1)
- RE:Improved bass response for Absoloute Zero - genungo 17:23:47 08/10/14 (0)
- superzero woofers aren't really the issue, it's the tweeters - budget minded 14:00:47 08/09/14 (0)
- A semi-serious problem with the Superzeros... - genungo 16:41:26 08/08/14 (2)
- i never had a problem with Superzero bass - budget minded 14:10:12 08/09/14 (1)
- To each his own, I guess... (nt - genungo 14:32:15 08/09/14 (0)
- ATC SCM20SL, SCM19, SCM11, Harbeth P3ESR, Spendor S3/5R etc.....NT - PS Yeo 22:06:15 08/06/14 (2)
- RE: ATC SCM20SL, SCM19, SCM11, Harbeth P3ESR, Spendor S3/5R etc.....NT - genungo 22:13:46 08/06/14 (1)
- RE: LS3/5A clones & role kayaks - budget minded 15:38:40 08/07/14 (0)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - hahax@verizon.net 20:43:17 08/06/14 (5)
- RE: don't forget sealed - budget minded 15:42:30 08/07/14 (4)
- RE: don't forget sealed - hahax@verizon.net 20:59:33 08/07/14 (3)
- so. acoustic suspension = sealed with stiff surrounds then - budget minded 15:32:31 08/08/14 (2)
- RE: so. acoustic suspension = sealed with stiff surrounds then - hahax@verizon.net 20:44:45 08/08/14 (1)
- reviewers still said acoustic suspension in the 80s - budget minded 14:18:15 08/09/14 (0)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - Chef Henry 11:58:57 08/06/14 (3)
- RE: unity audio rock - budget minded 15:51:02 08/07/14 (2)
- RE: unity audio rock - Chef Henry 17:15:58 08/07/14 (1)
- to each his own taste - budget minded 17:42:12 08/07/14 (0)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - geezerrocket 06:21:05 08/06/14 (5)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - budget minded 15:54:01 08/07/14 (4)
- Tweeters - geezerrocket 16:56:27 08/07/14 (1)
- RE: Tweeters - budget minded 17:17:34 08/07/14 (0)
- anthony gallo's having a $10,000 giveaway everyone - budget minded 15:56:20 08/07/14 (1)
- gallo strada 3.5 gets rave reviews... i'm interested - budget minded 16:17:31 08/07/14 (0)
- RE: hi-rez minimonitors? - unclestu 23:04:34 08/05/14 (3)
- Sonance 622c (1" thick cabinets @ $500? WOW!!!) - budget minded 16:27:00 08/07/14 (2)
- RE: Sonance 622c (1" thick cabinets @ $500? WOW!!!) - unclestu 16:43:38 08/07/14 (1)
- RE: Sonance 622c (1" thick cabinets @ $500? WOW!!!) - budget minded 17:13:03 08/07/14 (0)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - Bill Way 21:21:35 08/05/14 (2)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - Brian Levy 06:10:24 08/06/14 (1)
- bass extension and vintage speakers - budget minded 16:37:32 08/07/14 (0)
- Role Audio Skiff, Kayak, Discovery... - genungo 20:10:36 08/05/14 (6)
- Role Audio Kayak was already at the top of my interest list - budget minded 16:47:19 08/07/14 (0)
- RE: Role Audio Skiff, Kayak, Discovery... - hahax@verizon.net 20:32:45 08/06/14 (1)
- RE: Role Audio Skiff, Kayak, Discovery... - genungo 21:37:40 08/06/14 (0)
- +1 on the Role Kayak (NT) - 3rdRock 08:28:12 08/06/14 (2)
- RE: +1 on the Role Kayak (NT) - budget minded 16:49:10 08/07/14 (1)
- -10 on the Role Kayak - budget minded 18:59:27 08/27/14 (0)
- Phone or email ATC's US Importer in Nevada... - John Marks 19:47:54 08/05/14 (1)
- ATCs are lustworthy... no doubt - budget minded 16:56:32 08/07/14 (0)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - AudioSoul 19:46:16 08/05/14 (1)
- RE: What are you on boy? - budget minded 16:57:55 08/07/14 (0)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - mbnx01 17:26:51 08/05/14 (1)
- RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? - budget minded 18:42:15 08/05/14 (0)