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Music Lane It's all about the music, dude! Sit down, relax and listen to some tunes. |
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Music Lane It's all about the music, dude! Sit down, relax and listen to some tunes. |
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In Reply to: Re: Most disturbing news about "Songs For Swingin' Lovers..." posted by Willie on February 8, 2001 at 17:53:15:
From what I gather from Mr. Hoffman's comments, there are still plenty of good options. The first thing he suggested was tracking down an original pressing for 8 bucks (that's 8 US dollars, which translates to 5 or 6 British pounds, yes?), which will sound amazing; apparently, it's not a rare Lp, otherwise it would be very expensive.
These are all responses from Steve Hoffman to various questions:Q: What's the problem with the "Songs For Swingin' Lovers" master tape?
SH: The problem with this tape, is that there are two of them. One sounds wonderful, one sounds bad. The bad one is marked "master". In 1962, after Sinatra jumped ship, Capitol re-released all his old albums minus two songs each (to save money on publishing). They redubbed the old mono and stereo masters to NEW masters, with extra echo and (bad)
EQ. Of course they marked these new dubs "Master". So, unless you ask for the right version of the tape, you get the wrong version. The late Pete Welding of Capitol knew better, and all of rereleases he worked on had the right tapes. BUT, when MFSL did the Frank Sinatra box, they used all of the wrong tapes through no fault of their own. One only has to
listen to an old 1950's pressing of "Songs For Swinging Lovers" to notice how much better it sounds than most of the stuff out there on that title today. Darn shame, isn't it?
Q: Glad you exposed the myth about MFSL's Sinatra releases. People who buy them on ebay are getting ripped off.
SH: Well, Charles, the MFSL Sinatra box is worth buying if you are a MFSL collector, but the original mono Capitol cuttings (pre 1962) are the discs to have, if you love Frank Sinatra. The 80's Capitol CD issues are good except they added stereo digital echo to the mono music ("Wee Small Hours", etc.) God knows WHY they did that, but they ARE from the first generation tapes. The later CD's have of course been no-noised to death which totally ruins the sound.No one at MFSL realized they were not using the masters because the tapes looked old, were marked "master" and were the tapes that Capitol sent them in good faith. One listen to side one, cut one of "Songs For Swinging Lovers" would have been enough to tell me that "oops, something is wrong here; too much reverb on this". But, what 'cha gonna do?
Q: I have the EMI 100th Anv. 180gm pressing of this album. Did they use the correct master?
SH: Second generation British EMI copy tape, I think. If it sounds good, it must be from that. If it sounds less good, it could be from the same source as the Capitol 1980's CD. My "Come Fly With Me" EMI is from the British copy tape. Sounds OK, but the echo is overwhelming....
Q: Do you know which tapes were used for the MFSL CD of "Songs For Swingin' Lovers"?
SH: The bad ones, I'm sorry to say. Buy an original Capitol pressing for 8 bucks. The sound will be much better; less echo, too.
Let's not be hard on the MFSL people......They just didn't realize they were using the wrong tape. Almost happened to me once. I was working on the DCC Gold CD of "Cast Your Fate To The Wind"/Jazz Impressions Of
Black Orpheus" by The Vince Guaraldi Trio. Fantasy kindly had sent me both sides of the stereo master tape, same as the one MFSL used to cut their LP. Well, I listened to side one and it sounded ok, but side two sounded a LOT better. Ohh Oh. Both reels marked MASTER. I took a look at the tape box and in VERY fine print it said "Dub from original
two-track with filter at 40 cycles; for original tape see file number ****". Well, it took just one phone call to Fantasy and they dug around for a week or so until they found that original reel. Hadn't been cracked open since 1962. I guess the songs on side one had a little AC hum on them, so they redubbed the songs (badly) to a new tape filtering off all the low bass! Anyway, I used the original tape and if you listen to the DCC Gold disc you can hear a little low end rumble on the songs on side one. Just another tale from the trenches....Q: 1) It seems to me that the best sounding LP of the entire set is "No One Cares". I compared it to both the original Capitol CD release and the digitally remastered Capitol LP; the MFSL has less noise and the soundstage appears to be wider without more echo. Am I right? 2) "Come Fly With Me": The top end of the high flute on "Around The World" is
awfully distorted on both the Capitol CD/remastered LP and the MFSL pressing. It's not on the otherwise compressed sounding EMI Centennial LP release. Is this due to deterioration of the original master or did Capitol Records use the same "false" tapes for their remastering? (Haven't heard the newer 20 bit version to this day, though) 3) Sorry for the previous post, I didn't realize the topic being discussed below in detail.SH: Nothing to be sorry about Arne, you ask damn good questions.
"No One Cares" from MFSL is one that used the correct original stereo mix. A keeper. The Capitol CD versions use a REMIX of the three-track, with the stereo folded in towards the center! Bad news.
"Come Fly With Me". An interesting situation. Each song on the album was recorded in mono and in multi-track. Since the mono is the version they were "going for" in 1957, it sounds fine. The Binaural multi-track version was recorded with SEPERATE mics and equipment. One of the Mic preamps had a bad tube in it for several of the songs and that is
what you hear overloading and distorting. Only on the stereo version. Get it? The EMI version used a British copy of the original mono (undistorted) tape. That's probably why the used the mono instead of the stereo mix made from the distorted multitrack.I was bitching earlier and forgot to mention that the STEREO LP's in the MFSL/Frank Sinatra Box are all the correct versions from the original "fairy dust" two-track mixes. It's only the MONO's that were from the re-echo'd tapes...... So, hang on to your boxes! =^)
Q: I would never put your comments in doubt, but I'd be hard pressed to believe this is true for "Sinatra's Swingin' Session". The original Capitol CD release (as with the other albums, I have yet to hear the "new" 20 bit remasters) sounds very much cleaner and more dynamic than the MFSL pressing that contains a substantial amount of hiss. But then, it was probably on the original master and filtered for the CD release?
SH: Arne, "Sinatra's Swingin' Session" stereo master tape sounds just like it does on the MFSL LP. That is the reason it was remixed from the three track for the Capitol CD versions. Less hiss, more dynamics. The BEST way to hear this great album is on the MONO Capitol LP. World of difference!!
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Follow Ups
- Re: Most disturbing news about "Songs For Swingin' Lovers..." - Matt 19:11:46 02/08/01 (2)
- Thanks! - Mike K 10:41:25 02/09/01 (0)
- Re: Most disturbing news about "Songs For Swingin' Lovers..." - Willie 08:27:45 02/09/01 (0)
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