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RE: I think you misunderstood

"First of all, this is not the crux of the disagreement. The crux of the disagreement is that your claims about auto-tune are baseless, they are entirely based on your 'best guess'. That is a fact, not an opinion."

So if I hear an oboe, and call it an oboe, someone who thinks is a trumpet can call it a "baseless" claim?

Now I might actually be hearing a trumpet and calling it an oboe. But the proper response is not that I stated a baseless claim. But simply, "no, you're hearing a trumpet."

The problem is you have an opinion that you want to be fact..... And you want it to be fact real, real bad.... But have nothing to support to make it factual.

And you've used this tactic to shout down any negative opinion on Auto-Tune, of all things. Why Auto-Tune?? (I've never had any problem with you regarding any other subject.)

(There was once a poster here with the moniker Rob. He was this way with negative opinions of classical performers that he happened to like.)

I'm totally OK with your opinion, but don't go around claiming that someone who states a differing opinion as "baseless". It's arrogant.

"Secondly, auto-tune does not leave notes out of tune when applied"

You *think* Auto-Tune does not leave notes out of tune when applied. Then how does one know how mild or strong the application is applied?

There are *very* mild cases of the app being applied with recent Barbra Streisand, for example. Streisand might be the one rare case where I actually prefer the singer with Auto-Tune applied. In the way that it's applied. (Had it been applied this mild on some Sinatra remasters, I might not have noticed it.)

"that's the whole point. It can be set to engage in different ways, but if a note is not perfectly in tune, it is not being processed by auto-tune, period."

I think you meant to say "if a note is perfectly in tune".... I think the app may or may not, depending on setting.

"Thirdly, what you call 'locking' on the notes is a steady pitch without vibrato."

I've never called it that.... The notes are not locked all the time. But it's obvious when it does lock. One's voice can glide from flat to sharp, but with Auto-Tune, there is a moment during that glide that locks on the pitch. (This is what I believe is going on in that T-Pain clip you linked.)

Since Auto-Tune does pass vibrato, that alone refutes your claim that no out-of-tune information gets passed through.

"Yes of course something that is auto-tuned sounds like that. But most singers don't use vibrato on every note and most are capable of holding a steady pitch, which also sounds like that."

OK.....

"I've stated in the past, Elton John is a very pitch-accurate singer. But I don't hear any "locking effect" in his "The Diving Board" album.... There is some belief that a pitch accurate singer would be difficult to distinguish from an Auto-Tuned one, but it's rather easy..... A lot easier than to distinguish one Auto-Tuned singer from another.

No human is pitch-accurate in the way that auto-tune is."

Very true.... But that contradicts your "capable of holding a steady pitch" comment earlier... In the context of mistaking it for Auto-Tune.

This is why one can tell whenever Auto-Tune is applied to Elton John. (Roughly a third of the clips on You-Tube.) Or any pitch-accurate singer.

"That is why pitch-correction affects any recording it is applied to whether a good singer or bad (to keep it on singers)."

Agreed....

The problem is while it inflates a poor singer, it diminishes a good one. (Many producers fail to realize the latter part.) An artifact of Auto-Tune is transforming a singer's unique tonal signature into a generic one.

"That is also why it may be used on a recording of someone with excellent pitch, and why its use is not a reflection of someone's abilities."

There are a lot of recent singers I've never heard without Auto-Tune. (Michael Buble, for one.) I really don't know how good they are.

The question is why would someone want to apply the app on a good singer? (Maybe the producer thinks it would still enhance the singer and the listeners would never notice it. If so, I think he's wrong in both parts.) It just destroys the qualities of the singer.

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