In Reply to: RE: Seriously? posted by Analog Scott on September 2, 2012 at 09:31:46:
>OK I will remind you of what you said on the subject.
"Yuja Wang's rhythms are wrong, and where they aren't wrong, they're unsophisticated."
Scott, I know what I said. I'm just not sure why that has anything to do with the URL I provided, since I didn't make that post until later.
"If you are going to assert that your claims on these alleged 'rhythmic anomalies' are valid based on your familiarity with the genre you can't claim logical fallacy when an opposing position is presented by someone who is clearly more familiar with that genre."
You've made a logical error here, confounding "one must be familiar with a genre to make judgments" with "familiarity with a genre confers the ability to make judgments." Do you question the former? I certainly question the latter.
[Tchaikovsky] Tchaikovsky did make such objective assertions about Brahms, and about Bach as well. I disagree with them, just as I disagree with the judgment of these two jazz musicians.
"I think you lose the argument if that is the criteria."
I think it has no effect on the argument one way or the other. It is merely an observation about the nature of judgment, and why professionals don't necessarily have judgment that's superior to non-professionals.
You keep personifying this when neither ad hominems nor argument from authority -- which as I think about it are flip sides of the same thing -- have any validity.
"If that is your position I think you are plainly wrong. One can not excel at anything without the ability to evaluate the success of their en devours and the en devours of others. There is no way a musician as well versed in jazz as Sasha Mazakowski is going to miss objectively 'wrong rhythms' or 'rhythmic anomalies'."
If that were true, all professional musicians would have equal interpretive skills. I don't think you'll find many who say that they do. Furthermore, you persist in oversimplifying style, supposing that it is something that a musicologist could describe. Except in the most basic degree, we aren't able to do that.
What makes Schnabel's performance of the Hammerklavier so compelling? Certainly not technical virtuosity -- there are many pianists who have fleeter, more reliable, fingers. Can what makes his performance be described in entirely mechanistic terms? I don't think so. Not of course because there's no logic to it, but because we lack the analytical tools to do so. We can say so-and-so played with gusto, or rare understanding, or sensitivity, and critics regularly do. Or we can say he took the andante too fast, or that her intonation was off. But we can't put into words everything that makes a performance great. We can only hear it (or not), and respond to it.
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Topic - Piano recital encores: will this be a trend? - Chris from Lafayette 16:49:04 08/21/12 (69)
- RE: Piano recital encores: will this be a trend? - Thornhill 08:44:21 08/22/12 (1)
- Right - there's more of a history of improvisation with organ recitals - Chris from Lafayette 12:31:55 08/22/12 (0)
- Yikes! - Paul_A 08:42:40 08/22/12 (64)
- Agreed. - David Smith 23:10:56 08/26/12 (0)
- Are you talking about Wang? or Matsuev? or Tatum? or some combination? [nt] - Chris from Lafayette 12:35:31 08/22/12 (62)
- You need to ask? - Paul_A 13:14:37 08/22/12 (61)
- Hey - why are we only focused on Yuja and Tatum - what about Matsuev? - Chris from Lafayette 15:32:17 08/23/12 (0)
- No - Analog Scott 21:08:10 08/22/12 (0)
- BTW, the "silly rhythm" came from Tatum's original - Yuja didn't change a thing [nt] - Chris from Lafayette 14:55:04 08/22/12 (57)
- I couldn't listen all the way through - josh358 17:10:55 08/22/12 (34)
- Seriously? - Analog Scott 21:12:24 08/22/12 (24)
- RE: Seriously? - josh358 07:39:45 08/23/12 (23)
- RE: Seriously? - Analog Scott 10:06:38 08/23/12 (22)
- RE: Seriously? - josh358 11:38:39 08/23/12 (21)
- RE: Seriously? - Analog Scott 13:23:01 08/23/12 (20)
- RE: Seriously? - josh358 14:40:55 08/23/12 (19)
- RE: Seriously? - Analog Scott 14:50:43 08/23/12 (18)
- RE: clarification - the ""gutter"" was your attitude, not the forum (no text) - Hi-Fi Nut 06:07:54 08/24/12 (0)
- RE: Seriously? - josh358 15:31:14 08/23/12 (16)
- RE: Seriously? - Analog Scott 16:21:35 08/23/12 (15)
- RE: Seriously? - josh358 17:06:40 08/23/12 (14)
- RE: Seriously? - Analog Scott 18:24:31 08/23/12 (13)
- RE: Seriously? - josh358 07:11:40 08/24/12 (12)
- RE: Seriously? - Analog Scott 09:02:03 08/24/12 (11)
- RE: Seriously? - josh358 09:39:30 08/24/12 (10)
- RE: Seriously? - Analog Scott 10:00:30 08/24/12 (9)
- RE: Seriously? - josh358 09:04:37 08/25/12 (8)
- RE: Seriously? - Analog Scott 11:59:09 08/25/12 (7)
- RE: Seriously? - josh358 18:01:35 08/26/12 (6)
- OK - I was giving Paul a bad time, but. . . - Chris from Lafayette 21:03:44 08/22/12 (8)
- RE: OK - I was giving Paul a bad time, but. . . - josh358 07:16:47 08/23/12 (7)
- Thanks for the link - Chris from Lafayette 08:17:08 08/23/12 (6)
- RE: Thanks for the link - josh358 08:49:14 08/23/12 (5)
- Yes - That Liszt story always reminds me. . . - Chris from Lafayette 12:02:19 08/23/12 (2)
- RE: Yes - That Liszt story always reminds me. . . - josh358 14:33:33 08/23/12 (1)
- Yes, That's funny! - Audio is of course notorious for this! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 15:13:52 08/23/12 (0)
- RE: Thanks for the link - kuma 09:10:37 08/23/12 (1)
- RE: Thanks for the link - josh358 14:17:28 08/23/12 (0)
- If she'd run it by a jazz musician first, she might have realized how far off her playing was. - Paul_A 15:09:46 08/22/12 (21)
- Here is an actual Jazz musician chiming in - Analog Scott 15:29:42 08/24/12 (1)
- Oh and another one - Analog Scott 14:18:52 08/27/12 (0)
- Cop out alert! - Chris from Lafayette 16:14:00 08/22/12 (18)
- If you have to ask... - Paul_A 19:01:18 08/22/12 (17)
- Paul - my wife agrees with you. . . - Chris from Lafayette 21:39:19 08/22/12 (16)
- RE: Paul - my wife agrees with you. . . - Analog Scott 21:55:44 08/22/12 (15)
- I'm perfectly willing to accept Yuja's interpretation on its own terms... - Paul_A 06:30:38 08/23/12 (4)
- RE: I'm perfectly willing to accept Yuja's interpretation on its own terms... - Analog Scott 09:13:58 08/23/12 (2)
- In that case, we just don't agree about what we're hearing - it happens [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 08:03:46 08/23/12 (0)
- Scott - I agree with you. It's my wife who doesn't! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 23:45:19 08/22/12 (9)
- yeah I know, felt like preachin to the choir - Analog Scott 00:49:44 08/23/12 (8)
- RE: yeah I know, felt like preachin to the choir - josh358 08:28:04 08/23/12 (7)
- RE: yeah I know, felt like preachin to the choir - Analog Scott 09:34:25 08/23/12 (6)
- Not to get back into the discussion again, but. . . - Chris from Lafayette 12:32:17 08/23/12 (4)
- RE: Not to get back into the discussion again, but. . . - josh358 15:08:13 08/23/12 (2)
- You probably know about Tatum and Horowitz - Paul_A 16:46:57 08/23/12 (1)
- RE: You probably know about Tatum and Horowitz - josh358 17:29:52 08/23/12 (0)
- RE: Not to get back into the discussion again, but. . . - Analog Scott 13:38:21 08/23/12 (0)
- RE: yeah I know, felt like preachin to the choir - josh358 10:55:13 08/23/12 (0)
- Yuja? - Not at all (and neither did the capacity audience) [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 14:40:14 08/22/12 (0)
- RE: Piano recital encores: will this be a trend? - Travis 07:23:24 08/22/12 (0)
- I don't think so - Analog Scott 21:10:01 08/21/12 (0)