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RE: Seriously?

Posted by josh358 (P) on August 25, 2012 at 09:04:37

In Reply to: RE: Seriously? posted by Analog Scott on August 24, 2012 at 10:00:30:

"Argument from authority is also a logical fallacy and it is fair game to challenge one's 'authority' when one chooses to argue from such a position."

That's a non-sequitur.

"If one is offering alleged expert testimony their expertise is fair game."

I made no claims to expertise. It would, as you point out, have been a logical fallacy to do so, as in "I am a musicologist trained at the Sorbonne, therefore you are an eegnorant peeg and your opinions mean nothing." (I should add that I am not.) An argument must stand on its own merits.

Here's an example that may hit closer to home. After you'd attacked him, another poster said that you don't understand jazz (I don't remember the exact words at this point, but they were to that effect). What did this comment contribute to the debate? It has no significance whatsoever to the question of whether you're right or not. You may not have cared, but *it adds nothing to the discussion.*

In my case, you did attempt to provide evidence that I lacked the expertise to comment, but it was completely off track; you interpreted a bit of laziness as lack of knowledge. This I find is another danger of personal attacks. They are much easier to make than to refute, and they are typically so speculative as to be useless. For this reason, I find that they are one of the most frequent tools of conformation bias. As in, "That guy only risked his life by running in front of the car to rescue a child because he wanted to get into the newspapers." I've noticed that much political argument occurs along these lines -- imputation of motive, baseless speculation. As in Obama is a Muslim, or Bush invaded Iraq to get the oil, to use examples from both the right and the left.

"I have offered no "speculation" as to why you somehow picked the wrong arrangement when the correct one was right there. I don't know why this is eating at you so much. It was lame regardless of why you did it and even you have conceded that point. So why are you stuck on it? I'm not. In my opinion you shot your own argument down when you insisted that the incorrect example still demonstrated the wrongness of Yuja Wang's "rhythms." And for the record that is me staying on subject and you trying to keep the subject about you."

No speculations? Try "Sorry but this is sounding like back peddling to me. if you were familiar with the different arrangements why on earth would not check to make sure you were posting a link to the relevant arrangement?" Or "Never hurts to do your homework before stepping into it"?

Otherwise, you continue to engage in speculation. Chris said,

"BTW, the "silly rhythm" came from Tatum's original - Yuja didn't change a thing [nt]"

I said, in reply,

I couldn't listen all the way through

By way of contrast, here's Tatum doing it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKb0Sc2lYVU

I guess she deserves credit for trying, but you have to be some kind of masochist to try to equal that.

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/music/messages/19/195558.html

You then reintroduce the subject of rhythms:

"You do realize that you are comparing two entirely different arrangements do you not? And seriously, you take issue with Yuja Wang's rhythm? So I guess this Art Tatum version also sucks since it suffers from similar "rhythmic issues"?'

I replied to point out that no, Tatum's version did not.

Throughout this, you have misjudged what I was saying and doing, generally because you weren't cautious enough in making inferences -- and when I explained, in effect, accused me of lying or being stupid. (It never occurred to me, and it still does not, that the intelligent listener could not infer from another Tatum version of Tea for Two that Tatum plays jazz with a mastery that Wang does not possess.)

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