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RE: Your point is very well taken

Posted by RGA (R) on April 14, 2015 at 20:31:28

In Reply to: Your point is very well taken posted by Mike K on April 13, 2015 at 19:24:20:

If she was minimally talented she would not have lasted this long.

"appealing to an audience which has seemingly zero appreciation for real talent."

So one can't appreciate different kinds of music? Not everyone can do what Madonna or Lady Gaga do - it's not just about a singing voice with pop music. There are better singers but pop requires a "complete package" of skills to be successful.

Music has different target audiences and goals - pop is dance music - 95%+ of jazz would largely be completely out of place for that sort of thing.

I've been thinking about this topic a bit lately because I appreciate Classical, Jazz, Folk, Instrumental, R&B, Soul, Contemporary, Country, Rock, Metal, Opera, Pop, Hip Hop, Trance, House, etc.

I find people will rave say about the Beatles and then rip Lady Gaga or Madonna. So I begin to think - well why is that?

As a lit major I look at the lyrics and I don't see vast differences in the quality of the poetry between rock and pop music - there are painfully simple hugely popular songs from both camps. Pop and rock tend to be "poetry set to music."

I mean most of the Beatles catalog isn't exactly a source of great or profound lyrics and neither are most rock bands. I mean here is an example of the Beatles

"Last night I said these words to my girl
I know you never even try, girl

Come on
(Come on)
Come on
(Come on)
Come on
(Come on)
Come on
(Come on)

Please, please me, whoa yeah
Like I please you

You don't need me to show the way, love
Why do I always have to say, love?

Come on
(Come on)
Come on
(Come on)
Come on
(Come on)
Come on
(Come on)

Please, please me, whoa yeah
Like I please you

I don't want to sound complaining
But you know there's always rain in my heart
(In my heart)...

It's not like the band members here are profoundly talented musicians either - most consider Ringo to be a mediocre drummer. So we're not talking A-grade philharmonic quality instrument players nor were their songs particularly great pieces of poetry.

Yet this is viewed as great music but Madonna or Lady Gaga are not. I might give you Madonna because she doesn't play instruments but I look at the above song compared to this pop song from Lady Gaga

We are the crowd
We're c-coming out
Got my flash on it's true
Need that picture of you
It's so magical
We'd be so fantastical

Leather and jeans
We're rock glamorous
Not sure what it means
But this photo of us
It don't have a price
Ready for those flashing lights
Cause you know that baby I

[Chorus]
I'm your biggest fan
I'll follow you until you love me
Papa-paparazzi
Baby there's no other superstar
You know that I'll be
Your papa-paparazzi
Promise I'll be kind
But I won't stop until that boy is mine
Baby you'll be famous
Chase you down until you love me
Papa-paparazzi

I'll be a girl backstage at your show
Velvet ropes and guitars
Yeah 'cause you're my
Rockstar in between the sets
Eyeliner and cigarettes

Shadow is burnt
Yellow dance and we turn
My lashes are dry
Purple teardrops I cry it don't have a price
Loving you is cherry pie
'Cause you know that baby I

This lyrically is more sophisticated from a poetry perspective.

And she plays the piano an instrument more difficult and sophisticated than most of what the Beatles and most rock bands happen to play (guitar, bass, and percussion). So she wins on level of difficulty of instrument. She sings at least as well as most or any rock singer - Axl Rose was heralded as the best male rock vocalist... Hint - if you need liner notes to understand what the heck anyone is singing - they kind of suck. It's a thing called Enunciation!

Classical and Jazz are far more sophisticated than either pop or rock but it always seems to me to be the rock guys scoffing at pop music and that's a head scratcher to me. It's not like Rock isn't repetitive or uses particular difficult instrumentation. Although must say I am far more impressed by bands with good individual intrumentalists who play well like a Slash or Buckethead or Santana etc. I suppose this is one of the main areas where rock exceeds pop but it isn't vocal talent and it's not really the poetry. Although you can just buy a Buckethead or Santana CD without vocals and it's probably a better album than listening to some two bit hack scream into a microphone interrupting the nice guitar solo.

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