General Asylum General audio topics that don't fit into specific categories.

---

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] Thread: [ Display  All  Email ] [ General Asylum ]

---

[ Alert Moderator ]

---

The Allure Of The Score Versus The Love Of The Hobby

Posted by X-2000R (A) on October 25, 2014 at 15:00:47

What is the draw to this hobby? Clearly, most, or at least many of us enjoy listening to music. But from that very basic starting point, it seems that a lot of us diverge into many different directions and seldom cross paths again. I think it’s a safe presumption that most of us are simply turned off to todays minimalist and disposable offerings. Perhaps we are drawn to vintage audio because it represents taking us back to a younger, simpler, and perhaps happier period in our lives. Maybe our father, older brother, or uncle had a sound system and you have held a lifelong enamoring of it. Others love working with our hands and enjoy the sense of pride and accomplishment that comes about as a result of doing a project (such as a musical compilation on a tape) ourselves and the hands-on interaction involved (sometimes there’s no fun in just clicking and drag-n-drop. Making a tape is a long tedious process. If done right, in involves setting levels, sequencing, timing , cueing, and so forth) is a source of pride in and of itself. And lastly there are aesthetic visual factors we are drawn to. Social conformity issues aside, it’s hard to find anyone that would argue that a pair of 10” reels spinning in the living room is NOT a cool piece of décor. And cassette tapes are just so outdated and hated by the masses, that they are cool again. Setting a record on the platter then bringing the needle to it and hearing that rich, warm sound is almost like foreplay to some in the amount of pleasure derived through the senses.

Again, I’d like to think that we’d be in almost universal agreement with the preceding paragraph.

But that’s not what I’d like to discuss today. If the [vintage] audio hobby began and ended there, there would be no reason for this post.

Unfortunately, there’s a dark and highly controversial side to this hobby and is the area I’d like to focus on. Sooner or later, someone has to call a spade a spade and call this out for what it is. Simply ASKING this question unfortunately will cost the person asking it a lot of grief, heartache, and relationships because of its tendency to anger, alienate, and divide many of us.

It is for that reason I want to see the record set straight once and for all. This is a question that I’ve been asking for years. And almost every single time, I will never get a direct, straight answer. It has been brushed aside as though never asked. I have had more ad hominiem attacks hurled at me because of this: ignore the message and crucify the messenger: tiptoe around the answer, speak a lot of noise, but never really answer the question except for non-answer answers.

Which then begs the question: is vintage audio-by definition and its very nature-require a character that by any reasonable definition, is defined as unethical, perhaps dishonest, and in extreme cases, outright criminal?

This is the question:

What role do scores, bargains, and discounts play into the vintage audio hobby?

A-1: Yes! They are a key indigenous aspect of it. Because many of these items have been cast aside and abandoned by modern society [in an era of economic hardship], and exist only in a static or declining supply, we need to bring them on. The bigger the score, the better. For many of us, the thrill of the hunt is at least half the fun. Getting something marked down is half of the reward. The other half being what it was we got. It’s a source of cheap entertainment. And many of us believe that we can have things both ways: convince some people (such as Ebay sellers or folks hosting yard sales) that something they have is worthless, while inside we secretly assign the value of gold to it because we want it so bad. We would otherwise reject the idea of putting money in someone elses pocket almost on principle alone.

A-2: It’s ALL ABOUT the score. Heck, what it is we scored is largely an afterthought; it makes little or no difference what the item was. Even if we didn’t want, need, or like it, we’ll still buy it if we perceive it to be a bargain. In recent years, bargain hunting has been demonstrated to be a clinical condition akin to addiction. There has been a demonstrable cause-and-effect relationship shown with bargain hunters: getting that score releases dopamine in the brain and the result is a strong-albeit brief surge of ecstasy and satisfaction. In this context, it is essentially identical to taking a hit of a joint or other illicit drug such as heroin: the process, motivation, and outcome follow similar if not identical paths. It is now a matter of BEHAVIORAL PATTERN. Thus, at this point the question of it being drugs, gambling, bargain hunting, etc becomes irrelevant.

B-1: NO...scores, bargains, and discounts are NOT what this site is about. While we generally don’t endorse being flippant or frivolous with our hard earned dollars, we are in this for reasons described in the opening paragraph: music, looks, interaction, nostalgia, etc. This is not a bargain hunters/frugal living hobby. Sure, getting bargains or at least prices we liked is nice, it’s not our only reason for living.

B-2: Not no, but hell no. Because of answer A-2, where bargain hunting can be classified as a medical disorder, it opens the door to a dangerous slippery slope: addicts, by their very nature need frequent “hits”. Each one must be as strong or stronger than the last. Thus, what was a ‘score’ yesterday is, today, a rip off. Following the well documented behavior patterns of both, what starts as bargain hunting by shopping and comparing prices soon descends into instances of outright theft. Think Ebays recently imposed policies that effectively sanction it. That translates to getting any bargain available by any means possible. If that means taking advantage of minor technicalities in a for sale listing, other peoples ignorance, or even claiming you never received an item that you did, then so be it. Such behavior is at best shameful and at worst criminal. And for people to come on and brag about it simply has no place in a group of otherwise honest and hardworking people. It creates distrust and skepticism among people who should otherwise be friends. Just plain old human decency and manners should dictate that such grievous acts have no place among us.

Why is this question such a third rail question that no site admin will dare touch? On the surface, one could infer because it’s such a divisive and alienating issue. If that’s true, then would it be likewise reasonable to conclude that the very nature of vintage audio requires conduct that in almost any other sector of society we’d be shamed as lacking in ethics-and thus requires existing in the shadows and in the fringes in a subject area that 99% of people don’t care about? Is that what the draw is in the first place? That many of us HAVE failed in modern society and living in the past and/or in exile is our last link with life?

Since I first began discussing vintage audio, tapes, taping, etc online at about the turn of the century, suggestive anecdotal evidence I’ve seen indicates that scoring for the sake of scoring (answers A-1 and A-2) prevails over B-1and B-2 by about a 70% ratio. So in other words, this raises the troubling Gordian Knot: were it not for such behavior, then an argument can be made that this hobby really would have gone extinct had it not been for these people keeping it alive. Thus an inference is now drawn that says "if you're part of this group, you are part of the behavior".

I'm cognizant enough to know that not everyone can be described with just one of the above answers. The problem is that some people see no harm or wrongdoing with some of their actions (such as gloating about how they ripped off that widow that was 'too dumb to know what she had'). And others want no part of it. Even the same scenario can take two highly different meanings depending on the mindset and portrayal of the person saying it: paying 'asking' price-no questions asked and no matter how low-takes on a different meaning if one person is 'thankful' and another is thinking 'he pulled a fast heist'. This may sound like semantics, but it really isn't. Let me illustrate with an example.

Take the following phrase:

"A woman without her man is nothing."

What does that mean?

Now just insert a couple little pesky punctuation marks. How about a period after the word "woman". And a comma between "her" and "man".

NOW what does the sentence mean?

In closing, how does one keep these highly defined and succinct mindsets segregated from each other? Is it even possible for the shameless bargain hunters and the people who love the hobby regardless of what they paid to avoid each other? Nobody likes to be stereotyped or labelled guilty by association.

So what do you value more?

The item you bought? Or the discount?

Is there a sensible middle ground where it's possible for both schools of thought to peacefully coexist?

Thanks for reading.

Edits: 10/25/14 10/25/14 10/25/14 10/25/14 10/25/14 10/25/14

This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:

Schiit Audio

---

[ Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]

---

[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]

---