Help with dialing in a System (LONG)

Posted by jeffmathers (A) on April 18, 2012 at 06:10:39

Not sure which forum is appropriate so it goes here. Feel free to redirect.

I have a friend who has a problem with mid bass in his system, and I was hoping the collective knowledge here may help us solve this problem.

System:

Speakers: Coincident Pure Reference Extremes
Amps: Atmasphere MA1 (forget which Mk.) Silver Anniversary
Pre: Aesthetix Calypso, Signature upgrades
Phono: Aesthetix Rhea, Signature upgrades
CD: Sony 5400
Table: AVID Acutus, SME V arm, Linn Akiva
Cables: Coincident (pre to amp), Kimber, various other

Room Size: 13Wx27Lx8H (Speakers are on the short wall. There is a large entry way on the south wall that opens into a dining room – this is next to the left speaker. - I tried to insert a drawing here but couldn't figure out how to do that - feel free to ask questions about the room shape and I'll try to clarify).

Room modes: 43Hz, 21Hz, 70Hz

Together, he and I have tried numerous solutions: added bass traps in all four corners of the room as well as other sound absorption solutions – the room is pretty well damped. And we’ve gone back and forth with additions and subtractions of room sound treatments.

We also recently added a subwoofer. While this improved the low bass response (and we played with freq cutoffs), it did little to add to the mid bass. And we both feel that a sub should not be necessary IN THEORY for this system and this room size. But hey, we’re open to trying anything.

We’ve also done every tube roll we could with the amps, the pre, and the phono stage. We did not skimp on tubes – most current tubes are NOS and very low noise. But we’ve also tried current production tubes. There are myriad numbers of tubes in these components. While all the tube rolls had effects, nothing has come even close to giving us more body and midbass oomph in the system. We’ve also done the cable swap thing.

The problem is there’s still no body to the music whatsoever. The top end is pretty much spot on with excellent air and detail. But when it comes to heft and weight the system is just not there. The speakers have over 300 hours on them I believe - perhaps more.

We have listened to a number of other pres and amps in the system – most recently a Cary Superamp and an Almarro 318 integrated. We’ve also tried an Audible Illusions pre and an Anthem pre. Still no real difference in midbass heft. Prior to all this, my friend had Coincident Total Eclipse speakers – these had the same issue with a lack of midbass in this same system. We had found that a Atmasphere MP3 pre with the Total Ecilpses gave us more bass and mids but the highs were severely compromised.

I may be missing some more important details and hopefully my friend will see this and also chime in with some detail.

It has become quite a frustrating experience for both of us. I'd say we've been tweaking around on this system for at least a year and if you include the Total Eclipses then it's more like three years (We're stubborn idiots I know!).

What are we missing here? It seems like the system can do much more than it is. Any help would be much appreciated.

Jeff

SMAC website: http://www.michiganaudioclub.com

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Topic - Help with dialing in a System (LONG) - jeffmathers 06:10:39 04/18/12 (47)

solution found - jeffmathers 06:16:39 04/24/12 (0)

(Long)It's the combination of an OTL amp and the inductive x/o used with the Peerless woofers. Plus - cfb 08:52:31 04/19/12 (3)

RE: (Long)It's the combination of an OTL amp and the inductive x/o used with the Peerless woofers. Plus - jeffmathers 09:11:30 04/19/12 (2)

In that case, you might wish to try separating the midrange modules from the bass units and try - cfb 10:50:10 04/19/12 (1)

RE: In that case, you might wish to try separating the midrange modules from the bass units and try - zoeinterloper 11:33:27 04/19/12 (0)

RE: Help with dialing in a System (LONG) - soulfood 16:46:50 04/18/12 (6)

RE: Help with dialing in a System (LONG) - jeffmathers 04:39:30 04/19/12 (5)

RE: Help with dialing in a System (LONG) - soulfood 05:08:46 04/19/12 (4)

RE: Help with dialing in a System (LONG) - jeffmathers 05:14:57 04/19/12 (3)

RE: Help with dialing in a System (LONG) - soulfood 05:55:18 04/19/12 (2)

No idea, no clue - jeffmathers 06:11:11 04/19/12 (1)

RE: No idea, no clue - soulfood 06:45:06 04/19/12 (0)

Speaker set-up... - mkuller 15:29:56 04/18/12 (1)

RE: Speaker set-up... - jeffmathers 04:43:09 04/19/12 (0)

4 other things to try - Gofast 14:23:48 04/18/12 (3)

RE: 4 other things to try - jeffmathers 04:46:48 04/19/12 (2)

RE: 4 other things to try - Gofast 05:05:39 04/19/12 (1)

RE: 4 other things to try - jeffmathers 05:17:17 04/19/12 (0)

whats the ceiling look like? - Gofast 13:41:59 04/18/12 (1)

RE: whats the ceiling look like? - jeffmathers 04:43:44 04/19/12 (0)

RE: Help with dialing in a System (LONG) - lochrider 11:06:34 04/18/12 (5)

RE: Help with dialing in a System (LONG) - jeffmathers 04:49:55 04/19/12 (4)

RE: Help with dialing in a System (LONG) - ahendler 07:49:53 04/19/12 (3)

RE: Help with dialing in a System (LONG) - lochrider 12:28:09 04/19/12 (2)

RE: Help with dialing in a System (LONG) - zoeinterloper 10:49:39 04/20/12 (1)

RE: Help with dialing in a System (LONG) - lochrider 13:39:04 04/20/12 (0)

One important piece of data missing - listening position. - carcass93 08:25:25 04/18/12 (15)

RE: One important piece of data missing - listening position. - ahendler 09:28:10 04/18/12 (5)

Just curious... which ones? -t - Sordidman 13:08:10 04/18/12 (1)

RE: Just curious... which ones? -t - ahendler 20:12:05 04/18/12 (0)

RE: One important piece of data missing - listening position. - nairb 10:28:06 04/18/12 (2)

""I know. Been there, done that." what? - Sordidman 13:12:28 04/18/12 (1)

RE: ""I know. Been there, done that." what? - nairb 03:45:35 04/19/12 (0)

missing data - jeffmathers 08:53:36 04/18/12 (8)

RE: missing data - KnobSpinner 09:21:02 04/18/12 (5)

RE: Do This ^ /t - Cpk 06:21:23 04/19/12 (0)

RE: missing data - ahendler 09:38:27 04/18/12 (1)

temporary test measure perhaps - jeffmathers 10:11:24 04/18/12 (0)

oops drawing not to scale - jeffmathers 09:27:35 04/18/12 (1)

I think Knobspinner has the right idea - Jack G 09:32:55 04/18/12 (0)

That's an odd shaped arrangement - jedrider 09:02:41 04/18/12 (1)

RE: That's an odd shaped arrangement - jeffmathers 09:16:09 04/18/12 (0)

This was in the Roy Gregory Review - Frihed89 08:02:46 04/18/12 (4)

RE: This was in the Roy Gregory Review - jeffmathers 08:20:03 04/18/12 (3)

RE: This was in the Roy Gregory Review - Frihed89 10:04:22 04/18/12 (2)

RE: This was in the Roy Gregory Review - zoeinterloper 17:23:40 04/18/12 (1)

RE: This was in the Roy Gregory Review - zoeinterloper 06:53:25 10/31/12 (0)

Help with dialing in a System (LONG)

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