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Satisfy yourself first?

Posted by rupertdacat (A) on June 30, 2007 at 11:26:18

In Reply to: Question for legal types, how close is this to universal satisfaction, World Wide?... posted by Wellfed on June 28, 2007 at 21:54:07:

The following exchange is complete and sequential. E-mails and names have been edited for privacy. There was no phone conversation during this time. The first e-mail in this sequence was our first exchange in two months.

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-----Original Message-----
From: (Rupertdacat)
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 2:16 PM
To: (Wellfed)
Subject: Clever Little Clock evaluation


Hi (Wellfed),

Time flies...

What are your current thoughts on the little experiment we discussed a couple of months ago?


Hope all is well,

(Rupe)

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From: (Wellfed)
To: (Rupertdacat)
Subject: RE: Clever Little Clock evaluation
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:56:39 -0500


Things are well. I was just thinking of you earlier today. My monthly trips to the Twin Cities haven’t produced any left over time so far. Looks like we should be thinking late June or July. I should be down there for extended periods at that time after my granddaughter’s birth. I’m a little concerned about the prejudice you voiced after we last talked. I still would like to hook up with you, but I hope we can get back to that “let’s just have a little fun with all this” mode. This was the assumption I was operating from. I certainly understand, and don’t begrudge, scepticism regarding P.W.B. based stuff. It just seems that you have something personal against Geoff Kait and I am uneasy about the fairness of your mindset in evaluating one of his products. Perhaps we should agree to publish only (name deleted) impressions, or those of his family if they end up getting involved.

(Wellfed)


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-----Original Message-----
From: (Rupertdacat)
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 6:23 PM
To: (Wellfed)
Subject: RE: Clever Little Clock evaluation

Hi (wellfed),

Glad to here all is O.K.

You wrote, "It just seems that you have something personal against Geoff Kait and I am uneasy about the fairness of your mindset in evaluating one of his products."

I do not know Geoff Kait, have never had any interaction with him, have not looked at his website, and have not laid hands or eyes on any of his products. I am, indeed, skeptical about the claims for the Clever Little Clock. We all have prejudices. You, for example, are clearly prejudiced to believe that it does work. After all, you as much as told me in our phone conversation of 2/6 that you had not actually carefully evaluated whether it works in your system or not.

When I first started putting my system together, I was very prejudiced against the notion that interconnects and/or power cords could have much (if any) impact on the performance of a system. It took me all of two minutes (once I actually got around to trying it out for myself) to realize I was wrong. It took much longer than that to get some inkling as to why I might have been so wrong.

So... as I say- we are all prejudiced. The sin is unwillingness to test one's beliefs for underlying prejudice. I am willing, in fact eager, to do so.


With best wishes,

(Rupe)


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From: (Wellfed)
To: (Rupertdacat)
Subject: RE: Clever Little Clock evaluation
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:45:00 -0500


Regarding the Clever Little Clock you had this to say on 2/17/07
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/isolation/messages/505.html



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From: (Rupertdacat)
To: (Wellfed)
Subject: RE: Clever Little Clock evaluation
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 23:01:00 -0500


Hi (Wellfed).

Yes- those are my prejudices. I am fairly certain that I am right (like anybody else, I am always fairly certain that I am right when I feel strongly about something).

I never did, until just now, see your response to my post: "How do you suggest we get around the extreme prejudice evident in this posting of yours Rupe?"

Here's how:

- I was hoping to have a listen for myself. You indicated that you would make a CLC available to me. I was disappointed that you did not follow through on this in the timeframe you had indicated ("a couple of weeks").

- I was hoping to get more data when I suggested to you that you remove the CLC from your system to see if that made a notable change. I was willing to give your observations serious consideration.

- I conceived of a good and fair test for the CLC. A test that would convince me, even if I could not discern an effect of a CLC, that someone else could.

That is my concrete, no nonsense, answer to your fair question.

I have made a strong statement about the efficacy of the CLC (based on my understanding of how the world works) without any proper personal evaluation. Likewise, you have made SEVERAL strong statements about CLC's efficacy without, as best as I can tell, proper personal evaluation. Please recall that you admitted to me that your first CLC arrived, uncannily, at the EXACT moment you had made an important change to your system (turning off the video circuitry of your main source). It seemed to me that at the moment you told me that, you realized you had not adequately evaluated the CLC.

(Wellfed), I believe that in you heart of hearts you don't really know if you believe in the CLC. It would require a bit of courage, for both you and I, to put the CLC to a fair test. After all, we would both be taking the risk that we would be proven incorrect. So... big deal!


With best wishes,

(Rupe)

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FW: Clever Little Clock evaluation
From: (Rupertdacat)
Sent:Thu 4/19/07 11:56 PM
To: (Wellfed)




P.S.

I wish I hadn't written "So... big deal". I know that this is very important to you. That's why I don't think you will take the risk of going forward with the challenge I posed you.


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From: (Wellfed)
To: (Rupertdacat)
Subject: RE: Clever Little Clock evaluation
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:31:00 -0500


The reason I MAY choose not to go forward with the challenge is I’m getting this JREF vibe from you. If you are interested in hearing a Clever Little Clock, in a timeframe other than what we’ve discussed, you could do so like anybody else, i.e., purchase one with a money-back guarantee and, at most, risk shipping costs.



In case you missed it, I have been saying from the start of our conversation that any time other than late June, early July, may be problematic, and that I’d have to play it by ear. My monthly trips to the Twin Cities have, so far, net me about three hours of free time on Sunday mornings before meeting up with my traveling companion and heading back to Fargo/Moorhead.



In case you’re wondering what the JREF vibe is, it’s this ‘I know you better than you know yourself’, “I was disappointed that you did not follow through on this in the timeframe you had indicated ("a couple of weeks").", "Michael, I believe that in you heart of hearts you don't really know if you believe in the CLC." sort of attitude.



I would greatly enjoy meeting up with a fellow Atma-Sphere enthusiast, one who is well acquainted with (name deleted), whom I admire greatly, and simply enjoy the fellowship of a fellow audio enthusiast and look at a product that we both find to be of mutual interest, and 'just have some fun'. Somehow we’ve managed to step outside of this ideal. If we can get back to that level, I’d love to meet up with you and Paul as originally discussed.



(Wellfed)

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RE: Clever Little Clock evaluation
From: (Rupertdacat)
Sent:Fri 4/20/07 3:16 PM
To: (Wellfed)




Hi (Wellfed),

Its simple:

If you were "blinded" and were to listen to repeated tunes of your choice, would you be able to tell just by listening when the CLC was actually on (i.e. powered up) or off (powered off)? You only need one other person to run this test. You could do it at home on your system.

- Before each listen have an assistant in another room (well out of your sight and hearing) with the CLC. They would flip a coin to determine whether the battery should be in or out of the CLC (e.g. Heads- battery in, Tails- battery out).

- Your assistant, after placing or removing the battery as indicated by the coin flip, would record this info, put the CLC in a opaque shopping bag, and place the shopping bag in your listening area.

- You would then listen to a tune, for as long as you wished or as many times as you wished, and then: write down on a piece of paper whether you thought the CLC was on or off, fold the paper, call your assistant, and hand them the folded paper.

- Your assistant would then take the shopping bag/CLC back to the other room, read and record your answer.

- The process could then be repeated.

You should decide ahead of time how many times to go through the above process. Ten would probably be reasonable. It is important that while you listen, your assistant not be in the listening area so as to not be able to transmit subconcious cues to you. Of course, for this test to work, it must be impossible to tell through the shopping bag whether the CLC is on or off. For example, if it makes a ticking sound, that would not work.


As (perhaps) the most vocal supporter of the CLC (and other equally unlikely products), you owe it to yourself and others to convince yourself as to whether you have been correct or if you have gone out on a limb, and misled other people, for who knows what reason.

Anyway... as I said, you don't need me to do this. You can decide for yourself.


Have fun,

(Rupe)

This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:

Atma-Sphere Music Systems, Inc.

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