In Reply to: Re: Agreement and disagreement posted by EGeddes on March 6, 2006 at 15:22:34:
"Which leads me into the area that you are uncomfortable with and the one that I am most comfortable with. You seem to be unsure that true accuracy will achieve what you are seeking - fair enough, perhaps you haven't experienced it, perhaps it can never really be achieved, whatever. But what I have found (personal subjective opinion here) is that I am more satisfied with the sound the more accurate it is when judged by an absolutely objective criteria. This could be coincidence, or wishful thinking, but I ask you, does that seem likely. Doesn't it just seem intuitively like it should happen this way. What else in our universe works in any other way? How could it be that the key to good sound is locked away from us never to reveal itself through science? Maybe its the scientist in me, but this just doesn't seem logical. Most professional believe that measurements are absolutely reliable predictors of mean opinions of quality."
So far improved accuracy has seemed to work for me too, however I remain hesitant about total accuracy.
Part of my reason for that is that I think there's a question about accuracy to what. I know people with wildly different systems and they all claim to be seeking accuracy, but different aspects of the "sound of music" appeal to them and their systems do sound different and individual. Do I assume many of us are fooling ourselves about what is accurate, including people who do listen to a reasonable amount of live music? More importantly, are they choosing the sound they get because of personal preference or because aspects of that sound strike them as more accurate in relation to what they focus on when they listen to live music? That's not a trivial question and I'm unaware of any research to try and answer that question.
The 2 of us can drive separately from A to B in identical cars along the same route. Weather conditions and time of day are the same. Do we perceive the same scenery and do we have the same driving experience? We'll probably attend to some different aspects of the scenery and give a different description of some aspects of the route so I think it's fair to say that our perceptions are different. Our driving styles will definitely mediate our driving experience. Whose report of the trip is going to be more accurate, assuming both of us report honestly? It's a meaningless question. We've both answered accurately but the trip was different in some ways for each of us.
Our perceptions are complex and they do differ from person to person. What we perceive when we listen to music isn't simply the product of the acoustic waveform in the room. There are other contributors to our perception and they are personal. Does everyone's perception correlate to the same degree with their raw sensation? I doubt it, but I also don't know how we could go about establishing it.
And, if one person's "accuracy" now is another's "re-interpretation", why should that change when we have the ability to reproduce things with 100% accuracy to the source when we don't all perceive the source in the same way?
It's possible that having total accuracy would satisfy many of us, and it may make it easier for many of us to focus on those aspects of the music that most interest us, even though there is some variation from person to person there, but I'm uncertain that it will satisfy all of us. It probably would satisfy those of us who fall within 1 standard deviation of the mean for what we respond to, however that is measured, but I wonder whether it's less likely to satisfy those at the extreme ends of the bell curve for this. There's a wide range of variation in musical tastes (classical vs pop vs jazz vs…) and many of those forms have very different sonic traits. I would expect there to be similar variations in what we all perceive as accurate, irrespective of measurements.
I always remain cautious about views that leave no room for individual differences. They tend not to work for everyone though some views do seem to work for more people than do others. There is less variation among us on some things than on others. Until we can achieve total accuracy and see how a wide range of people respond, I will choose to remain cautious.
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Topic - Assembling a Good Audio System – black art or not? - John C. - Aussie 19:08:28 03/01/06 (69)
- No way to know for sure exactly whats goin' on... - Abel McCain 14:33:01 03/04/06 (0)
- Measurements & perception & reproduced sound - Duke 19:24:13 03/02/06 (13)
- Agreement and disagreement - David Aiken 14:14:28 03/03/06 (12)
- Re: Agreement and disagreement - Duke 17:40:00 03/03/06 (11)
- Re: Agreement and disagreement - David Aiken 00:51:09 03/04/06 (10)
- Re: Agreement and disagreement - EGeddes 21:30:50 03/05/06 (9)
- Re: Agreement and disagreement - David Aiken 00:38:19 03/06/06 (8)
- Re: Agreement and disagreement - EGeddes 05:24:42 03/06/06 (7)
- Re: Agreement and disagreement - David Aiken 12:58:07 03/06/06 (6)
- Re: Agreement and disagreement - EGeddes 15:22:34 03/06/06 (5)
- Re: Agreement and disagreement - David Aiken 22:04:14 03/06/06 (4)
- Not much different than cooking- how easily are your taste buds satisfied? n.t. - Story 16:28:11 03/02/06 (0)
- "If you cannot measure it - it doesn't exist" - Janos 16:26:48 03/02/06 (0)
- It's trial and error...(nt) - mkuller 11:43:27 03/02/06 (0)
- Don't "balance" components. - Bob Neill 09:54:32 03/02/06 (10)
- Are we really smart enough to do that sucessfully? - Frihed89 22:38:59 03/02/06 (0)
- Very good point. - LarryI 11:23:03 03/02/06 (8)
- yup - CD 10:19:39 03/03/06 (0)
- Agreed, two good examples. - Bob Neill 15:32:43 03/02/06 (6)
- We do seem to agree - LarryI 16:18:10 03/02/06 (5)
- How about a little common sense?? - Robert Hamel 09:43:23 03/02/06 (0)
- I think “measurements” of audio equipment is next to useless…….. - three_sox 09:22:52 03/02/06 (0)
- The 'black art' component can be reduced to any level you please - Al Sekela 09:10:50 03/02/06 (16)
- Great Al now that we know who you don't like what about those that you do? - Don T 09:59:01 03/03/06 (11)
- Your comment on dealers... - Al Sekela 16:28:15 03/03/06 (3)
- You've got to be kidding me! - Don T 16:43:24 03/03/06 (2)
- "few dealers have any clue to what I like" - Al Sekela 17:15:36 03/03/06 (1)
- It say that I am hard to please, particular and discriminating when it comes to audio purchases. - Don T 22:48:27 03/03/06 (0)
- Well, isn't that precious? - Dave Pogue 11:46:28 03/03/06 (6)
- A good post? At it's best it's half assed. - Don T 16:33:24 03/03/06 (5)
- "...give those who spend freely a pass..." - Al Sekela 17:20:49 03/03/06 (3)
- Re: "...give those who spend freely a pass..." - Don T 11:44:38 03/04/06 (2)
- I'm sure you'll be glad to provide the other half (nt) - Dave Pogue 16:40:55 03/03/06 (0)
- Re: Thanks Al (nt) - Ralph 08:20:09 03/03/06 (0)
- Way cool of you, and pretty darn concise too! nt - scruffy_ 15:35:38 03/02/06 (0)
- Wow! - Dave Pogue 14:30:03 03/02/06 (0)
- I think it's a matter of sound engineering... - C.B. 08:38:51 03/02/06 (0)
- A Gr Research AV1 Clone, But Costs 199 - Mister Pig 08:00:46 03/02/06 (0)
- Re: Depends on the (black or not) faceplate * - Guy 07:57:55 03/02/06 (0)
- IME, knowing one's preferences is key - Quint 05:51:07 03/02/06 (3)
- Nice! - Don T 22:36:30 03/02/06 (0)
- Re: IME, knowing one's preferences is key - OTA-ATC 06:34:08 03/02/06 (0)
- Me too - Frihed89 05:56:00 03/02/06 (0)
- I've changed my views on this - Frihed89 00:45:26 03/02/06 (4)
- Are you serious? - Peter Gunn 06:19:33 03/02/06 (3)
- No Art .....No Magic..... - John EH 21:50:49 03/01/06 (0)
- Lots Of Sense So far - Peter Gunn 21:44:46 03/01/06 (1)
- Re: Lots Of Sense So far - RAB 11:23:02 03/02/06 (0)
- Luck, skill and common sense perhaps? - OTA-ATC 19:55:27 03/01/06 (0)
- Damn. Can we just say if it sounds good to YOU, it's OK? - Tromatic 19:45:37 03/01/06 (1)
- Re: Damn. Can we just say if it sounds good to YOU, it's OK? - Dman 08:03:32 03/02/06 (0)
- Synergy? - Don T 19:35:10 03/01/06 (2)Follow Ups
- Re: Agreement and disagreement - David Aiken 22:04:14 03/06/06 (4)
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