It's "common knowledge" that DBTs, (double-blind tests), of properly functioning amplifiers reveal no differences amongst them. A few famous tests are quoted to demonstrate this assertion. Since most audiophiles know that amps do indeed sound different, many dismiss DBTs as irrelevant and become incensed at the mere mention of them. However they should not, because not all amplifier DBTs have, in fact, been negative.The editors of Sound Advice magazine conducted a very rigorous DBT as well as other testing of a group of 19 "high-powered" amplifiers. Results were published in the summer of 1975 in Volume 1 Number 1 of that publication. I still have a copy of the magazine. The publisher of Sound Advice was Edward S. Wodenjak and the Editor & Technical Director was J. Peter Moncrieff. To my knowledge, the magazine was short-lifed, publishing only a few editions.
A total of 19 amplifier models were tested. Amps tested included ARC Dual 75, Crown DC300A, Dynaco 400, Harmon Kardon Citation 16, McIntash 2300, Phase Linear 400, Sony TAN-8550 (early FET design), and Infinity Switching Amp (SWAMP) 500; in some cases multiple examples of a given model were tested. Source material was original master tapes recorded using a Ampex 351-2 recorder and Neumann U-65 microphones. Listening was done through Stax SRX and SR3 and Koss ESP-9 electrostatic headphones, and KLH 9, Ohm F, ESS Heil Tower, and Infinity Monitor II speakers, (amongst others).
I am neither a scientist nor engineer, but it seems to me based on the detailed description of the testing procedures that very great, and apparently rigorous, pains were take to remove any experimental bias. All amps were very carefully match for volume to +/- .05 dB. It must be noted that switching devices were, in fact, used that permitted rapid switching between amps.
As well as A-B'ing amps against each other, the editors employed another blind test approach that they described as "straight wire bypass". In essence a line level signal was feed from the tape player through a "straight wire" to either headphones, or a reference amp and speakers; an alternate circuit could be selected that included the test amp. Hence testers could listen for differences that could be attributed to the test amplifier. The editors admitted that did limit the test conditions for the test amp to a very benign situation, but that the procedure did remove the tester's preference in judging the accuracy of the amplifier with respect to source.
The editors also defined specific set of descriptions covering various aspects of sound in order to minimize semantic vagaries. Complete neutrality, i.e. faithfulness to the source, was the declared benchmark for all aspects. To make a very long story, (as told in detail over 19 page in Sound Advice, clear differences could be heard among all of the amplifiers and these were report in some detail for each amplifier. The editors also rated the amps overall.
To me this Sound Advice report demonstrated that (1) DBTs work, and (2) that amplifiers do indeed sound different from each other. Testing of this scope and rigor just don't happen very often. Obviously it is complex and therefore costly to carry out. It isn't unreasonable to assume that Sound Advice folded simply because it couldn't afford to keep on conducting tests of the type of this one for amplifiers.
Based on the Sound Advice report I confidently purchased my Phase Linear 400 amp, the top-rated amp, which I used as my main amp for 25 years. With respect to the Phase Linear 400, the editors admitted the then already common dislike for this amp's sound. To quote the editor, "We're only human, and we admit to having shared this prejudice against the Phase 400. In a small way, it's measure of the objectivity of our blindfold testing procedures that this prejudice had no way of creeping into the results of our tests. We were utterly flabbergasted when we discovered that in our early A-B comparisons the amplifier which sounded dramatically cleaner and more revealing turned out to be, when we removed our blindfold status, the Phase 400. We obtained a second Phase 400 ... the two Phase 400's kept coming back to the surface. ... This, however, occurred on high quality program material: master tapes and low distortion discs. On the majority of discs, the Phase 400 does sound hard and unpleasantly bright. Unless you are skilled at listening through distortion to hear the added music which such a revealing amplifier will give you, you might want to write off the Phase 400 as a purist's amplifier."
Hence this old report demonstrated something else to me: that audiophiles commonly are not looking for accurate but for euphonic sound. And what is euphonic is not always high fidelity. We should bear in mind that when another audiophile reports that a piece of equipment sounds "musical", "involving", "toe-tapping" and any of many other such highly subjective terms, that he/she isn't talking high fidelity.
Bill Bailey
_______________
Beauty? Or Truth?
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Topic - The DBT that proved all amplifiers sound DIFFERENT - Feanor 04:26:07 12/28/05 (161)
- Here's some MORE TEST INFO - Feanor 10:23:41 12/31/05 (4)
- You should be ashamed of yourself for presenting subjective auditions as "rigorous double-blind tests" - Richard BassNut Greene 09:47:41 01/02/06 (1)
- Same yada-yada , still, your point is well taken - Feanor 06:33:16 01/03/06 (0)
- Re: Here's some MORE TEST INFO - Dave Pogue 04:32:58 01/01/06 (1)
- Saying anything you feel like saying about an amplifier is not a test of anything - Richard BassNut Greene 09:53:56 01/02/06 (0)
- Interesting but... - morricab 10:09:40 12/30/05 (1)
- morricab ... - Feanor 10:31:59 12/31/05 (0)
- It's been two days... It still appears you have presented a subjective audition as "a very rigorous DBT" - Richard BassNut Greene 08:53:06 12/30/05 (3)
- OK, BassNut - Feanor 09:50:18 12/30/05 (1)
- I don't want a private e-mail -- share at least a summary of test results with everyone - Richard BassNut Greene 10:23:00 12/30/05 (0)
- You know what, Richard? - Dave Pogue 09:26:45 12/30/05 (0)
- Maybe you guys should debate less and listen more??? - TomWh 20:28:07 12/29/05 (1)
- Re: Maybe you guys should debate less and listen more??? - chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com 05:11:08 12/30/05 (0)
- Folks, HELLO! It was all very simple - Feanor 04:47:49 12/29/05 (28)
- Yep- It's pretty strange alright. - GL 22:58:48 12/29/05 (0)
- Funny how something so well meaning and seemingly - musetap 15:56:07 12/29/05 (0)
- "RichardBassNutGreene -- Many thanks...for fulfilling Clark's prediction." Shucks, that was too easy! nt - clarkjohnsen 10:24:29 12/29/05 (1)
- In fact every one of your predictions was wrong (even a stopped clock is right twice a day) - Richard BassNut Greene 10:56:38 12/29/05 (0)
- The DBT that proved all amplifiers sound THE SAME - Richard BassNut Greene 07:22:24 12/29/05 (23)
- "Objective": I don't think it means what you think if means! - Feanor 10:00:53 12/29/05 (0)
- False indeed - Feanor 07:50:33 12/29/05 (21)
- "It's "common knowledge" that DBTs of properly functioning amplifiers reveal no differences amongst them" - Richard BassNut Greene 08:52:12 12/29/05 (14)
- Read up or shut up - Feanor 09:41:58 12/29/05 (13)
- The golden ears often end up using character attacks when trying to refute an objective audiophile - Richard BassNut Greene 10:00:14 12/29/05 (12)
- Re: A pity.. - theaudiohobby 22:16:25 12/29/05 (2)
- This can not possibly be a "DBT debate" because there was no DBT ----- a subjective audition was falsely called a "DBT" - Richard BassNut Greene 07:55:00 12/30/05 (1)
- Re: This can not possibly be a "DBT debate" because there was no DBT ----- a subjective audition was falsely called a "D - theaudiohobby 10:39:38 12/31/05 (0)
- Oh please! Now you're the victim - Feanor 10:04:53 12/29/05 (8)
- I said there was no test in my first post of this thread -- you've danced around that fact ever since - Richard BassNut Greene 10:25:25 12/29/05 (7)
- You keep digging yourself deeper and deeper - Dave Pogue 17:14:15 12/29/05 (6)
- Was any attempt made to prove any listener really had the ability to differentiate among amplifiers? - Richard BassNut Greene 07:34:47 12/30/05 (3)
- The test consumed 19 solid pages of text, charts, and sine wave photos - Dave Pogue 08:09:16 12/30/05 (2)
- I don't care if there were 190 pages -- was ANY attempt made to prove audibility of amplifier differences - Richard BassNut Greene 09:04:59 12/30/05 (1)
- how about 191? - jneutron 10:32:23 12/30/05 (0)
- Thanks again, Dave - Feanor 04:48:27 12/30/05 (1)
- My pleasure - Dave Pogue 05:07:42 12/30/05 (0)
- Richard just got stabbed with his own double-edged sword - kerr 08:03:05 12/29/05 (5)
- kerr, people are going to accuse me of writing YOUR posts just so I have such an easy target to refute - Richard BassNut Greene 09:06:05 12/29/05 (4)
- But don't you see you're shooting down yourself? - kerr 10:06:48 12/29/05 (3)
- Comparing a "test" to similar tests in the past three decades is as objective as one can be - Richard BassNut Greene 08:03:03 12/30/05 (2)
- But your conclusions are anything but! - kerr 09:46:09 12/30/05 (1)
- I questioned the label "DBT" -- and so far it seems that label was misleading - Richard BassNut Greene 10:40:31 12/30/05 (0)
- Don't y'all have something better to do? - lanny 13:02:58 12/28/05 (10)
- Apparently you don’t have a revealing system - Caymus 17:36:15 12/28/05 (7)
- Pardon, your insecurity is showing - lanny 15:20:20 12/29/05 (2)
- Anyone who boasts of incredible hearing powers but offers no proof... - Caymus 17:55:58 12/29/05 (1)
- Who mentioned "incredible hearing powers?" - lanny 14:25:44 12/30/05 (0)
- I am wondering if you tried elevating all your cables off of the floor? - krisgel 04:22:42 12/29/05 (1)
- Give it up, he's not gonna listen. nt - clarkjohnsen 10:27:47 12/29/05 (0)
- The post you're replying to is just another variant of... - andy_c 21:21:27 12/28/05 (1)
- If the shoe fits... nt - lanny 15:21:40 12/29/05 (0)
- Yours is the conventional opinion, apparently ~nt - Feanor 15:59:58 12/28/05 (0)
- Wires and resister leads sound differently -- Jeebus -nt- - Ivor the Engine Driver 13:38:07 12/28/05 (0)
- DBTs have no place in audio. - GL 12:12:49 12/28/05 (2)
- You've hit the nail on the head! - Feanor 15:58:36 12/28/05 (1)
- I enjoyed your posting... - Wellfed 20:35:47 12/28/05 (0)
- Published 30 years ago? I suppose not much has changed in 30 years...N/T - musetap 12:08:45 12/28/05 (0)
- Your fundamental premise is wrong. - jsm 12:00:31 12/28/05 (13)
- A very intelligent method for comparing audio components - Richard BassNut Greene 07:42:13 12/29/05 (1)
- Louder, better, or just different? - Inmate51 13:29:49 01/02/06 (0)
- Re: Your fundamental premise is wrong. - Inmate51 12:59:19 12/28/05 (10)
- It's funny you should doubt me because of my spelling. - jsm 15:04:13 12/28/05 (7)
- Didn't read your entire new post. If you don't know... - Inmate51 16:52:40 12/28/05 (6)
- Dismissing testimony based on spelling is lame. (nt) - Presto 17:00:38 12/28/05 (5)
- bull shut nt - Norm 19:22:40 12/28/05 (0)
- Seconded. (nt) - Rob Thomas 17:19:02 12/28/05 (3)
- Re: Seconded. (nt) - Inmate51 17:44:50 12/28/05 (2)
- Re: Seconded... - Rob Thomas 19:04:18 12/28/05 (1)
- Re: Spelling - Inmate51 19:50:19 12/28/05 (0)
- I never claimed to know how to spell!!! (NT) - jsm 14:40:24 12/28/05 (1)
- Re: I never claimed to know how to spell!!! (NT) - Inmate51 18:32:32 12/28/05 (0)
- Feanor your post was pure "golden ear bait" that worked better than any post I've ever made -- you are a master ! - Richard BassNut Greene 11:42:32 12/28/05 (24)
- Back in '75 - EGeddes 07:40:19 12/29/05 (22)
- DBTs - Inmate51 12:03:13 12/30/05 (2)
- Ok - EGeddes 13:17:58 12/30/05 (1)
- Thank you. nt - Inmate51 19:56:31 01/01/06 (0)
- Differences vs. Preferrences - morricab 10:24:23 12/30/05 (1)
- But actually - EGeddes 10:58:03 12/30/05 (0)
- Back in '75 there were only vinyl records with background noise, compressed dynamics and EQ as our sources - Richard BassNut Greene 09:21:07 12/29/05 (11)
- Good points - EGeddes 09:44:37 12/29/05 (10)
- Modern amplifier differences - morricab 10:38:56 12/30/05 (6)
- Thanks for the note - EGeddes 11:06:52 12/30/05 (5)
- What makes a difference - Inmate51 20:03:29 01/01/06 (0)
- Re: Thanks for the note - morricab 12:45:38 12/30/05 (3)
- Re: Thanks for the note - EGeddes 13:54:11 12/30/05 (2)
- Re: Thanks for the note - morricab 10:27:25 12/31/05 (1)
- Re: Thanks for the note - EGeddes 13:47:20 12/31/05 (0)
- A real test in 1975 could have been useful - Richard BassNut Greene 10:39:24 12/29/05 (2)
- Re: A real test in 1975 could have been useful - EGeddes 11:35:41 12/29/05 (1)
- DBTs are as close to non-biased purely subjective listening as one can get - Richard BassNut Greene 09:14:44 12/30/05 (0)
- Re: Back in '75 - kerr 08:07:10 12/29/05 (4)
- I don't think - EGeddes 09:42:59 12/29/05 (3)
- Sorry - critical omission on my part. - kerr 10:11:35 12/29/05 (2)
- I wish - EGeddes 11:39:51 12/29/05 (1)
- Re: I wish - kerr 12:13:01 12/29/05 (0)
- Well gee shucks, thanks - Feanor 16:01:48 12/28/05 (0)
- Re: The DBT that proved all amplifiers sound DIFFERENT - Inmate51 10:20:16 12/28/05 (1)
- Well, yes, that's right - Feanor 10:43:39 12/28/05 (0)
- I read your post and I thought about your post -- This sounds like a non-science (nonsense) test to me - Richard BassNut Greene 10:01:05 12/28/05 (9)
- I very much agree with one part of your post specifically... - Presto 17:09:48 12/28/05 (0)
- You're making this too easy for me! - kerr 16:08:04 12/28/05 (2)
- It's always easy ... to be wrong -- THERE....WAS....NO....TEST....AT....ALL --- the original post fooled you and others! - Richard BassNut Greene 09:45:28 12/29/05 (1)
- Is not knowing if you're right or wrong the same as being wrong? - kerr 10:21:17 12/29/05 (0)
- Re: Mastertapes are not substitutes for commercial CDs that audiophiles listen to virtually all of the time" - Rob Doorack 10:37:46 12/28/05 (1)
- Re: Mastertapes are not substitutes for commercial CDs that audiophiles listen to virtually all of the time" - Richard BassNut Greene 11:19:58 12/28/05 (0)
- Many legitimate points -- except, possibly, your conclusion - Feanor 10:27:16 12/28/05 (2)
- I think the test was pure BS -- however that doesn't mean the amplifier you bought was not a great amplifier! - Richard BassNut Greene 11:31:38 12/28/05 (0)
- Since the magazine has been defunct for close to 30 years I doubt copyright is an issue.... - JimL 10:51:24 12/28/05 (0)
- euphonic is the point... - docw 09:18:26 12/28/05 (0)
- Amps do sound different. Period. - Godzilla. 08:34:49 12/28/05 (0)
- One explanation for amps sounding different... - KlausR. 08:14:22 12/28/05 (3)
- For marginal designs, perhaps, - Al Sekela 08:42:29 12/28/05 (2)
- Oversimplification: "Class A rated" vs "marginal designs" - Sean 10:49:23 12/28/05 (1)
- Re: Oversimplification: "Class A rated" vs "marginal designs" - Inmate51 08:32:38 12/29/05 (0)
- These results are too, too easy to dismiss! Just look: - clarkjohnsen 07:56:38 12/28/05 (5)
- Point by point, you have delivered a pretty devastating criticism of the DBT, Clark! - Pat D 11:09:26 12/28/05 (2)
- It was *satire* mon! nt - clarkjohnsen 12:26:15 12/28/05 (1)
- Of course, but it's a two-edged sword. - Pat D 13:06:19 12/28/05 (0)
- yeah, see BassNut's response ~nt - Feanor 10:46:58 12/28/05 (0)
- Thanks, Clark - Feanor 08:51:06 12/28/05 (0)
- Re: The DBT that proved all amplifiers sound DIFFERENT - middleground 07:06:32 12/28/05 (3)
- Well ... - Feanor 08:45:21 12/28/05 (2)
- Yeah, US. No?? Give me a break ~nt - Feanor 16:03:56 12/28/05 (0)
- Re: Well ... - middleground 12:38:24 12/28/05 (0)
- "On the majority of discs the Phase 400 does sound hard and unpleasantly bright" - Dave Pogue 06:40:22 12/28/05 (3)
- Re: "On the majority of discs the Phase 400 does sound hard and unpleasantly bright" - Ozzie 06:52:36 12/28/05 (2)
- Re: "On the majority of discs the Phase 400 does sound hard and unpleasantly bright" - DaveInVA 08:04:31 12/28/05 (0)
- Re: "On the majority of discs the Phase 400 does sound hard and unpleasantly bright" - Dave Pogue 07:21:36 12/28/05 (0)
- Sound Advice's reference speaker for those amp comparisons... - TAFKA Steve 05:46:43 12/28/05 (2)
- But note re. Klipschorns ... - Feanor 06:16:00 12/28/05 (1)
- Re: But note re. Klipschorns ... - Ozzie 06:59:01 12/28/05 (0)
- Re: The DBT that proved all amplifiers sound DIFFERENT - chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com 05:16:20 12/28/05 (6)
- Re: The DBT that proved all amplifiers sound DIFFERENT - morricab 13:37:06 12/28/05 (1)
- Re: The DBT that proved all amplifiers sound DIFFERENT - chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com 05:48:37 12/29/05 (0)
- I agree about improvements - Feanor 05:37:08 12/28/05 (3)
- Re: I agree about improvements - kerr 06:59:57 12/28/05 (2)
- Fair, and since you asked ... - Feanor 08:48:37 12/28/05 (1)
- I'm good with that - kerr 16:12:04 12/28/05 (0)
- Interesting on two fronts - kerr 04:48:19 12/28/05 (22)
- Well, y'all movin' right along, here! - Silver Eared John 11:36:47 12/28/05 (5)
- And you're perfect for my next question - kerr 12:41:51 12/28/05 (4)
- I don't know, really... - Silver Eared John 23:34:36 12/28/05 (3)
- Live is 'sighted listening'… - David Aiken 22:28:45 12/29/05 (1)
- I think it goes way beyond that, though... - Silver Eared John 12:43:06 12/31/05 (0)
- Agreed and agreed - kerr 04:36:38 12/29/05 (0)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - Dan Banquer 05:12:25 12/28/05 (15)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - jneutron 07:43:55 12/28/05 (10)
- Re: I thought Cables had that (dubious) distinction * - Guy 12:27:04 12/28/05 (0)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - Dan Banquer 10:06:11 12/28/05 (8)
- Boy, ain't that the truth? - Silver Eared John 11:39:30 12/28/05 (1)
- Not totally - kerr 12:33:01 12/28/05 (0)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - jneutron 10:31:11 12/28/05 (5)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - Dan Banquer 11:14:30 12/28/05 (4)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - Jim Austin 19:10:47 12/28/05 (3)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - jneutron 13:21:07 12/29/05 (2)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - Jim Austin 04:37:52 12/30/05 (1)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - jneutron 05:59:23 12/30/05 (0)
- DBT isn't an obsure, technical topic anymore - Feanor 06:19:01 12/28/05 (3)
- Re: DBT isn't an obsure, technical topic anymore - soulfood 08:33:35 12/28/05 (2)
- Sorry to bother you with a few facts ~nt - Feanor 09:06:49 12/28/05 (1)
- My opinions are facts. ;^) (nt) - soulfood 10:09:00 12/28/05 (0)