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General Asylum General audio topics that don't fit into specific categories. |
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General Asylum General audio topics that don't fit into specific categories. |
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In Reply to: Re: More than one issue, here...John... posted by john curl on January 25, 2001 at 23:05:35:
"Why do you demand proof? If you can't hear the differences, just enjoy the music with what you have at hand."Because:
1. Because, well, like many people, I'm curious about the natural world. An interesting, controversial phenomena has been posited by many people and I'm interested if it's "true."
I note that my questions, which weren't raised in the spirit of confrontation, still managed to raise your hackles. I understand: you deal with this question a lot. Still, it's also frustrating that simply asking logical questions about burn-in typically brings some measure of vitriol. They're just honest questions that I hope anyone would ask when faced with curious, controversial issues.2. The burn-in issue has tremendous practical impact. How often have I heard one person trying to explain their experience or impression of
an audio system, only to see another say "but was the --- sufficiently burned in? If not, your opinion is worthless." In this manner, the burn-in issue often seems to create a disconnect, or barrier in the communication between audiophiles who believe equipment needs burn in, and those that don't. Which I find saddening.Also, if a high-end manufacturer recommends hundreds of hours of break-in time for a component, that creates practical problems for the consumer -- as if he not allowed to make judgment on the sound until a vaguely determined period of playing the device "is the piece I'm auditioning burned in? Can I make a sufficient judgment of the sound now?" "I just paid a lot of money for this cable and I don't like the sound, but is the sound going to change soon?"
The burn-in issue creates problems for reviewers (I do some myself for Stereotimes) - and thus for the thousands reading that reviewer. I'd love to just plunk a piece of gear in and "enjoy the music." But if I did so, and I didn't like a product, many high end manufacturers have an 'out,' they'd complain - "you didn't burn the product in long enough." So I conscientiously follow every manufacturer's advice on burn-in time. A recent product sounded unacceptable, and I told the manufacturer. His reply - "needs more burn in." I kept burning it in, checking and reporting my dissatisfaction to the manufacturer. "Needs more burn-in" came the replies. 450 hours of burn-in later, no change to the sound. This was, frankly, a much more arduous a process than simply plunking the product into the system and listening to it. This has happened, in variations, with other products too - all this fun I can lay at the lap of the burn-in phenomenon.
Check out "Manufacturer's Comment" in the recent Stereophile from Coincident Speaker Technology's Israel Blume. Michael Fremer didn't like Coincident's phono cable? That's because, to paraphrase Blume "his cable was only burned in for 225 hours. Our cable needs up to 500 hours of burn in, before which it sound like crap."
(Even better: this particular phono cable, says Blume, can't be burned in with a turntable, it needs these burn in hours from the high level signal of a CD player!!! - hope everyone buying knows that!).
500 hours of burn in - can you say "practical problems for the manufacturing of such a product, as well as for the consumer"?
Shall we simply take such manufacturer's pronouncements at face value, or are we not allowed to think critically about such claims, as they impact our audio activities?John, I respect your work immensely, and I'm not being confrontational. And thank you for the listing the credentials of the other individuals who support burn-in. But would you not agree that burn-in, whether real or not, creates many practical problems that are hard to ignore for anyone steeped in the world of high-end audio?
Thanks,
Rich H.
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Follow Ups
- Re: More than one issue, here...John...because... - Rich H 07:17:36 01/26/01 (0)
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