Subjective opinions of DACs

Posted by flood2 (A) on April 16, 2014 at 16:39:36

Prompted by the recent threads on the preference for old DACs which then deviated on to quality of old Digital Filters and the evils of upsampling....
I was wondering how many people do their own digital recordings and have compared the recordings to the original through their DAC when assessing the quality. I have a Benchmark ADC1 USB clocked from a Grimm CC1 and do my own recordings. I also have several DACs. So I can make an objective comparison between the DACs and the original source.

I am often amused when I hear subjective opinions where words like "air", "ambience", "emotion" and "rhythm and pace" are thrown around when listening to a commercial recording. Yet, unless said reviewers were present in the mixing room that produced the recording, I fail to see how any of these judgements can be made!

Mic placement, mastering etc all play a role in the final product you play so how can anyone realistically comment on the amount of "air" "ambience" , "emotion" without ever having been present at the recording session!

I'm both a musician and an electronic engineer so I know what realism actually is... and I know how to engineer the equipment to do so. I actually find that the technical capabilities of a well engineered DAC to be essentially transparent even at very reasonable prices (with the lateset advancements in technology). Certainly any deficiencies are nowhere near as obvious as some of the comments I read would suggest. Even on very modest equipment.

I read one comment where it was stated that the individual had yet to hear a DAC that could reproduce an orchestra properly.

In response to this, I would say that a recording of an orchestra has an artificially enhanced detail of the solo instruments. If you are sitting in the audience you won't hear the first clarinet or first violin with the same clarity. Also every hall has its own specific acoustic signature. Some of which needs to be tamed (churches for example!). If the recording was made "as you would hear it" I'm sure people would complain that the DAC lacked detail...or had a diffuse soundstage...so in fact it is customer expectation that drives the mastering process!
In reality, opinions are being based on artificially created effects and a synthetic soundstage.

Live recordings of Stan Getz can make his horn sound terribly bright - after seeing videos I now see why! The idiotic engineer placed the mic right at the bell opening. Sound does NOT come "out" of the bell people! A standing wave is set up in the instrument and the bell shape of a saxophone or clarinet is to correct for pipe end effects.

Which makes this endless search for "realism" (based on a commercial recording) whether it be from an analogue source or digital a bit Quixotic..

Fair comment?
Regards Anthony

"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats

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Topic - Subjective opinions of DACs - flood2 16:39:36 04/16/14 (47)

RE: Subjective opinions of DACs - RC Daniel 04:54:19 04/25/14 (1)

RE: Subjective opinions of DACs - flood2 05:12:42 04/25/14 (0)

You presume that your audience wants an accurate recreation of what is on the recording...... - viridian 19:52:30 04/23/14 (0)

RE: Subjective opinions of DACs - Diogenes 07:26:46 04/21/14 (0)

It's ALL subjective.... - Tromatic 20:33:05 04/18/14 (1)

FWIW, +1 -t - Sordidman 14:01:02 04/22/14 (0)

"air", "ambience", "emotion" and "rhythm and pace" - why single out DACs though? - carcass93 11:06:23 04/17/14 (0)

RE: Subjective opinions of DACs - AudioSoul 07:09:21 04/17/14 (20)

RE: Subjective opinions of DACs - Tony Lauck 12:43:58 04/17/14 (19)

making Recordings - fmak 05:42:34 04/18/14 (17)

RE: making Recordings - Tony Lauck 07:52:53 04/18/14 (16)

RE: making Recordings - fmak 08:01:53 04/18/14 (15)

RE: making Recordings - Tony Lauck 09:44:51 04/18/14 (14)

OK - fmak 21:43:34 04/18/14 (1)

RE: OK - Tony Lauck 08:03:44 04/19/14 (0)

"as little ambiance as possible" - Tromatic 20:42:10 04/18/14 (9)

RE: "as little ambiance as possible" - fmak 00:35:42 04/19/14 (8)

RE: "as little ambiance as possible" - Tony Lauck 08:01:54 04/19/14 (7)

RE: "as little ambiance as possible" - Old SteveA 16:02:33 04/19/14 (0)

RE: "as little ambiance as possible" - fmak 11:54:06 04/19/14 (3)

RE: "as little ambiance as possible" - Tony Lauck 13:53:08 04/19/14 (2)

As I sat listening to pipe organ and brass on Sunday... - Tromatic 19:27:59 04/21/14 (1)

RE: As I sat listening to pipe organ and brass on Sunday... - Tony Lauck 08:31:18 04/22/14 (0)

Odd, then, that so many reviewers..... - Tromatic 09:47:03 04/19/14 (1)

RE: Odd, then, that so many reviewers..... - fmak 11:55:43 04/19/14 (0)

RE: making Recordings - Sprezza Tura 10:38:38 04/18/14 (1)

RE: making Recordings-Ah - fmak 12:00:14 04/18/14 (0)

My Personal Opinion Is ............ - abs1 14:55:58 04/17/14 (0)

I have made my own recordings - morricab 02:16:22 04/17/14 (1)

RE: I have made my own recordings - Tony Lauck 06:24:00 04/17/14 (0)

RE: Subjective opinions of DACs - Tony Lauck 18:58:51 04/16/14 (2)

RE: Subjective opinions of DACs - Crazy Dave 09:34:35 04/17/14 (0)

RE: Subjective opinions of DACs - flood2 01:20:40 04/17/14 (0)

RE: Subjective opinions of DACs - Todd Krieger 18:02:32 04/16/14 (1)

RE: Subjective opinions of DACs - flood2 19:13:10 04/16/14 (0)

RE: Subjective opinions of DACs - knewton 17:52:43 04/16/14 (11)

Subjective opinions on ANY source/software - Bromo33333 19:36:15 04/16/14 (0)

RE: Subjective opinions of DACs - flood2 18:57:53 04/16/14 (9)

NOS vs Delta sigma - sbrians 16:09:03 04/21/14 (2)

RE: NOS vs Delta sigma - knewton 10:37:40 04/22/14 (0)

RE: NOS vs Delta sigma - Tony Lauck 18:20:26 04/21/14 (0)

RE: Subjective opinions of DACs - ahendler 19:24:45 04/16/14 (5)

RE: Subjective opinions of DACs - flood2 19:56:18 04/16/14 (4)

RE: Subjective opinions of DACs - ahendler 20:52:06 04/16/14 (3)

I remeber using Sony F1 system - fmak 05:47:40 04/18/14 (0)

RE: Subjective opinions of DACs - flood2 15:35:39 04/17/14 (1)

RE: Subjective opinions of DACs - ahendler 22:39:58 04/17/14 (0)

Subjective opinions of DACs

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