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In Reply to: Synergy? posted by NEAR SOTA on November 22, 2002 at 09:32:04:
is simply that there are too many possible combinations for any single person ever to be able to get a handle on which combinations work best - there simply isn't enough time to be able to give every possible combination a trial, much less work out comparisons. Assume there are only 10 amps that would match with your speakers and only 10 speaker cables - that's still 100 different combinations to be tried and there's a lot more amps and speaker cables around than that so the real number of combinations available is probably of the order of half a million (say a thousand amps and 500 cables). Impossible to assess. We all make our choices partly on what is readily available to us in our own locations and that varies considerably from location to location.Plus, as you pointed out, there are the differences in taste regarding sound that people have - about as many as there are people.
Manufacturers often provide some recommendations but they tend to be general and are intended as broad guidelines rather than specific "must do's". That's probably the best that can reasonably done unless the manufacturer is making everything and intending that the whole package be used as a unit.
Follow Ups:
You also have to include to 100 preamps as a multiplicitive factor.Both source and sink impedence could matter.
But lumping paramaters CAN help some. Problem is, you rarely know all that you need to know.
JJ - Philalethist and Annoyer of Bullies
is that I don't think in terms of preamps and amps because I use an integrated amp.You're right, and that does up the ante, and so do the interconnects to connect the two. Plus neither of us got into the topic of sources and interconnects there.
You might wonder how anything actually works, much less works well, when you look at the number of real life possibilities we're juggling. It's an indication of how much care most manufacturers take to ensure that their equipment is compatible with that of other manufacturers that things do work, and actually do work well together; and it's obvious that they do since the question asked most often is the "what works best?" or "what works better?" sort of question rather than the much more basic "what works?"
Most, but not all, equipment sticks to a rather narrow part of the input/output characteristics curve.Now, in the high end, this isn't as true. Some are "normal" some aren't, and so on.
The problem is that for the nonlinear aspects of such issues, there is very little way to characterize such a thing before trying it.
On the other hand, MOST effects are quite small. Please notice (not you as much as others) that I said MOST.
Some amp/speaker interactions (and speaker cable interactions) are "interesting", to say the least. Ditto for some devices with particular grounding, neutral, etc, issues, or for various devices with highly non-standard (to the extent one exists) input or output impedences.
JJ - Philalethist and Annoyer of Bullies
David,I agree, and this actually may be a better way of putting the 'it depends', or systemic argument I am so fond of.
Thankyou again.
Leaving aside the tail chasers, spec-men etc, and the lucky rich bastards.
Some of us have (had to accept) a slowly evolving system. A limited Budget helps here ;-)}.
I am certain that with a different life path I would have a very different system. A system definitely.
Eg. I might have come across the 'spheres elsewhere in Aus, but it was more likely here in Can'tberra, wasn't it! They go well with tubes as efficient etc.
Listening to 'The Science Show' - a long time back - switched me on to the primacy of attacks and decays in music.
Learning how to set up sprung TT's properly, probably kept me into vinyl.
Having been trained as an infantry signaller (among other things) I knew that antennas and positioning really mattered. AND Needing a big antenna where I am. AND Having yr FM stations on one tower makes it cheaper to own a good big antenna as you don't need a rotator.
etc etc.
Timbo
It's the last paragraph that points the way to the future:"Unless the manufacturer is making everything and intending that the whole package be used as a unit."
This is where I see audio headed, but it's a long slow road, and until audiophiles stop insisting on rolling their own, I don't see much progress being made.
The notable failure of active speakers to make a dent in the audiophile market has scared off a lot of manufacturers.
There are firms who make everything - Rega, Naim, Linn spring to mind and it seems to be a more British or European approach. Of course, there's always the glut of mainstream mini and micro "hifi" bundles.My problem is that if that is the only option, you're limited to choosing a house sound. You can't "mix and match", and you could well end up with problems when one component develops a fault and can't be repaired if things have progressed to the point where you can only buy a package.
I'd rather be able to play around and choose individual components. Yes, it is more work with more possibility of error, but I'm not limited to someone else's idea of what a system should sound like, or their ideas of what works best with something. If I'm prepared to put the effort in, and run the risk of making mistakes along the way, I can assemble a system that sounds the way I want it to sound and I can play with and tweak that sound over time. Not only is that part of the fun and part of the hobby for me, the sound I get will be slightly different from the sound anyone else gets. While difference for the sake of difference is of no value whatsoever, those differences add to my enjoyment if they support those aspects of sound and music which are of value to me.
It's fine for manufacturers to offer all the options, and I have no problems with individuals choosing to buy their systems that way, so long as we don't lose the option of assembling our own systems from individual components and as long as the range of individual components remains large enough and of high enough quality to ensure that remains a meaningful and viable option.
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