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In Reply to: Your Cable Asylum Dilution Concern posted by JOEY. on November 21, 2002 at 16:36:55:
I thought this forum was created to remove the technical discussion from the cable site. Hence, the "technical" banner at the top of the page.My only "dilution" concern was that only the tech heads like me would frequent this site, and I felt that the non techie input would be lost. (somebody has to keep us straight) But it doesn't appear that way.
Follow Ups:
As far as I am concerned, there is no need to take non-DBT technical issues out of the Cable Asylum forum.
It's the question of effectiveness of any given technique.And it's a compelling reason why the cable asylum should be limited to NO technology postings.
JJ - Philalethist and Annoyer of Bullies
> > It's the question of effectiveness of any given technique.Cant you make the same argument for 16bit PCM vs 24bit PCM vs DSD vs analog, various amplification designs, etc.....
IOW, we can get rid of the zillion asylum forums and have one big mess instead.
Lame!
JJ - Philalethist and Annoyer of Bullies
""As far as I am concerned, there is no need to take non-DBT technical issues out of the Cable Asylum forum"" Jon R.Was the prop head forum decided upon solely to allow DBT?
My take was it was to pull tech talk into a new category, and relieve the headaches of the people who didn't want to talk tech.And I'm still unsure if the split was the correct way to go. But, I accept it.
Hello Jon,I take your point regarding that "there is no need to take non-DBT technical issues out of the Cable Asylum forum", but John E makes a good point regarding the banner indicating that the Plaza (I love that name) is a place for "Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics". The banner clearly encourages technical and scientific discussion (including DBT) at the Plaza, probably at the detriment of other forums, since posting the same question across multiple forums is not appropriate.
Right or wrong, and judging by recent posts in both forums, I believe what the plaza has created is a more comfortable home / focused discussion for objectivists, whilst also providing a more comfortable home / focused discussion for subjectivists at the Cable asyslum. Is this good or bad? Ahhhhhhhhhh???????
Food for thought,
Joey, it has gone that way, but it should not be necessarily that way. This should be a place for the technically inclined to talk 'turkey' without worrying about leaving some behind who are not at all technical. I think that I understand Jon R's position on DBT and this forum is allowing people to give their personal experiences with cables easier now than previously, on the 'cable' section. John R is an engineer, who has done quite a bit of original work on cables and distortion measurements. He just doesn't want the 'hear no difference' crowd to DEMAND DB tests according to their formula. It is almost impossible to tell the difference between almost any component with an ABX test, so long as the gain and the frequency response are matched within about .1 dB, and the distortion is fairly low. I challenge you or anyone else to try it yourself, if you don't believe me. If the ABX tests are accurate, then we are wasting our time here. If they are not accurate, then we still have to use our ears in more open tests, in order to improve our audio products. Of course, it would be great if we could measure the differences that we hear. That is what you, I and Jon R attempt to do.
Well in most instances these certain ratings you speak of cannot be replicated(db levs,Distortion & the like).Switchboxes will add another dimmention.Then you get to the point of the synergy issue where a set of cables or whatever might not work in a particular system as opposed to another.
That is what I am trying to get at as far as synergy.If it be a marketing term then I don't have a problem with it as long as I am not the one doing the buying of the products or they have done research into the product to see what might work best or have issues with the products it works with.
The tests I will do involveing Cryo treated cables will not have these problems and will be intresting.I might have a few people over to see listen so the testing will not be skewed with my subjective opinion.I will ask people to leave the room several times to switchout the cables and tally their opinions.
Hello John,We are largely in agreement on these issues, but in your post, whilst I am not absolutely sure, I get a hint that you may feel that I am attacking Jon R in my response. IF YOU HAVE THIS VIEW, then let me make clear that nothing could be further from the truth and that this was not intended . Sorry if any noses are out of joint. I was simply trying to rationalise the difference in the two forums, which in light of the 'guiding objectives' of the banner will polarise the debate, into seperate forums.
HAVE FUN,
Hi Joey, I was not sure of your knowledge of Jon R's background, so I might fill that in. That is all that I was conveying. I'm OK, you're OK ! ;-)
Sounds like a book a I once read!I won't tell you how the author turned out.
Well, I see it as this, as busy professionals, Sometimes we don't have time to go to many places to scan the headers, see what interests us. So, I see it as well, if I go to the cable forum, I miss what's here, or vice versa. Since I have my own forums, I don't have "that much" time to venture out. Each of us is busy for our own reasons, and it's a matter of priorities. My priority is cables when I am here, not amps or other components, except how a cable might impact one and I could care less about the DBT issue. So, from that perspective, there is indeed dillution here as far as my own needs from this forum and of course, it CAN influence who interacts with what topic which is how it can influence the average user of products, and of course, how it can influence the pros, by being in more of a vaccum. Not a complete one, but at least more of one.Anyway, that's my thought. Sometimes less separation is more.
Hello John,Good point, now that you mention it, I remember reading the banner-oooops. If I had remembered its content I wouldn't have posted.
Thanks
HAVE FUN,
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