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Record Dividers for the rich?

67.204.157.211
Posted on February 23, 2017 at 15:33:54
ecl876
Audiophile

Posts: 3416
Location: Bend, Oregon
Joined: January 14, 2007
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2012
 I was thinking of ordering the complete alphabet set of these......until I saw the price! OK, they're made of high- grade European birch and they're laser cut. But $320? Do I really need dividers that will not only last my lifetime but well beyond it? I guess these are for wealthy audiophiles. And maybe if you can afford $100,000 speakers, the price here looks pretty reasonable. Still, it rubs me the wrong way. Beyond the initial production costs, how much do these really cost to make?

 

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Of no use to me anyway since my LP's aren't arranged alphabetically. nt, posted on February 23, 2017 at 15:45:33
Rick W
 nt

 

RE: Record Dividers for the rich?, posted on February 23, 2017 at 15:47:42
The Dill
Audiophile

Posts: 2199
Location: Portland, Oregon
Joined: July 1, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 3, 2016
 "how much do these really cost to make?" I don't know, why don't you setup a facility, get the proper machinery, staff, raw materials and you might have your answer.

This is what their website says:

Why are these products so damn expensive?
The short answer: Every panel is designed, handcrafted and packaged by hand, by a small team of skilled workers in San Francisco, California. We pay above the minimum wage to our team because we believe handcrafting skills are valuable, but too often undervalued.

The long answer: Our products are a labor of love, and we take great pride in creating a useful and durable handcrafted product. Panels are laser-cut and engraved by machine, however every other part of the production process is done completely by hand. Every product we produce goes through multiple rounds of inspection to ensure we're delivering the strongest, cleanest and most useful product we can. All of our wood products are hand-sanded to ensure a clean, smooth finish. We work exclusively with California-based suppliers, printers, and small businesses to produce this collection. Working with local companies allows us to have complete control over every element of our product, and it helps support our community of local businesses.

 

RE: Record Dividers for the rich?, posted on February 23, 2017 at 15:47:46
flood2
Audiophile

Posts: 2558
Joined: January 11, 2011
 Hi Eric

I guess you are paying for convenience. They have obviously identified a gap in the market and recognise that well-heeled audiophiles will spend up large on accessories!

I can tell you that a high precision laser cutter with a bed that is about A0 size (such as the one I have access to at work) can be had from China for about USD7000. The etching and cutting are programmed from the master drawing at the same time from the master file that you upload to the cutter. As far as labour goes, someone has to keep an eye on the work and continously swap out the acrylic sheets to complete a set, but you would program say "A to J" in one file and split up the jobs per sheet.

USD13/divider is probably a very large markup.
Perhaps make your own?
Regards Anthony

"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats

 

Sounds good- I'll get right on it! /nt, posted on February 23, 2017 at 15:52:38
ecl876
Audiophile

Posts: 3416
Location: Bend, Oregon
Joined: January 14, 2007
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2012
 .

 

RE: Record Dividers for the rich?, posted on February 23, 2017 at 15:53:15
flood2
Audiophile

Posts: 2558
Joined: January 11, 2011
 Oops! I glossed over the "made from wood" part and saw the white glossy sheets and thought acrylic.... EVEN WORSE then considering the asking price although they ARE offering customisation of the stencil.
Seriously though.... I would say save your pennies and DIY!
Regards Anthony

"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats

 

Do I really need dividers that will not only last my lifetime but well beyond it?..., posted on February 23, 2017 at 16:47:49
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 Well, do ya?


"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

RE: Do I really need dividers that will not only last my lifetime but well beyond it?..., posted on February 23, 2017 at 16:54:29
The Dill
Audiophile

Posts: 2199
Location: Portland, Oregon
Joined: July 1, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 3, 2016
 Can't be a question of "need", nobody needs these. It is a question of "want", just like all things involved in our audio hobby.

At $12.30 for each divider shipped, I really don't think they are that expensive.

 

Translation:, posted on February 23, 2017 at 19:00:28
Ross
Audiophile

Posts: 1814
Joined: January 24, 2000
 We're a bunch of Hipsters pushing the organic hand made envelope as far as we can to justify an obscenely high mark up.

Pass

 

RE: Do I really need dividers that will not only last my lifetime but well beyond it?..., posted on February 23, 2017 at 19:01:37
ecl876
Audiophile

Posts: 3416
Location: Bend, Oregon
Joined: January 14, 2007
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2012
 I guess we really disagree. I think the price is outrageous. And, no, I really don't need them; it was largely a rhetorical question?

 

It's all relative..., posted on February 23, 2017 at 19:48:31
dirtyvinyl
 Add up the expense and hassle

I'm certainly not defending the sellers price, but we may not be able to do something EQUAL to this product for cheap?

"imported birch" how much do you have to buy to get the discount? Shop services, are they cheap? packaging, e commerce etc
Their story says it's made in the most expensive area of California.

Subtract from the gross, and do YOU offer for less? I think they're reasonable.
It's just a slice of wood, but....

I don't have an extensive collection in a nice bin/shelving setup, so a I have no use for them

 

RE: Where there's a will, there's a relative, posted on February 24, 2017 at 05:07:31
kitch29
 The Baltic Birch panels will cost about $80.

Cutting them into 26 pieces while leaving the tab will require a fair amount of labor with both table saw and jig saw. Call it a day. What do you get paid for a day?

Engaging a graphics outfit to do a one-off project like laser cutting the tabs will obviously run very close to or more than the $325.

Now apply finish, another two days, stand back and admire your 5 $$$ Figure dividers.

 

I agree. My categorization isn't alphabetical! , posted on February 24, 2017 at 05:36:32
spindoctor
Audiophile

Posts: 1663
Location: Virginia
Joined: December 31, 2002
 nt

 

RE: I agree. My categorization isn't alphabetical! , posted on February 24, 2017 at 05:39:22
spindoctor
Audiophile

Posts: 1663
Location: Virginia
Joined: December 31, 2002
 classical is by composer, some by conductor, some by label.
Sim

 

RE: It's all relative..., posted on February 24, 2017 at 07:36:07
Todd A.
 6mm Baltic birch goes for ~$25 for a 5'X 5' sheet. You'd need 1-1/2 for 26 dividers. What will cost you is the setup time and access to the CNC laser cutting machine, then final sanding and finishing. The laser process is nice for combining the cutout process with cutout of the letter stencils, and it's a damn clean cut - really nice for fine detailing. I dunno...from a manufacturing perspective in small lots, they're probably not too far off the mark. I personally wouldn't pay it, but I can see a lot more justification for its price tag than a lot of things I see in audio.

 

RE: It's all relative..., posted on February 24, 2017 at 08:37:57
dirtyvinyl
 Nice breakdown.

They're actually quite nice.I originally thought the letters are printed, but I see its laser cut.

While audio gear may be questionable, these don't appear ridiculously priced once the BIG PICTURE is considered.

Now, perhaps if these were the MKII version, made by vestal virgins, using tools from the Roman empire @ $1K per set, we have something to question value.

 

RE: Where there's a will, there's a relative, posted on February 24, 2017 at 08:38:11
ecl876
Audiophile

Posts: 3416
Location: Bend, Oregon
Joined: January 14, 2007
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2012
 When I posed the question, I didn't mean for it to be taken literally. I was wondering not how much it would cost ME to make, but a company that already has much of the equipment needed for this and similiar projects. Apparently, they make many variations of record dividers and related items. It just seems to me that once their initial costs for machinery, materials, and labor are met, there still is ample room for profit. And at those prices, quite a large one. That's just my take. I may be wrong. And many here would say, what's wrong with this? It's capitalism at its finest.

Here's another item they sell- a tote bag for records at $109. And it's presently sold out! So I guess the demand is there for those who demand THE BEST!

 

RE: Record Dividers for the rich?, posted on February 24, 2017 at 08:55:33
ecl876
Audiophile

Posts: 3416
Location: Bend, Oregon
Joined: January 14, 2007
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2012
 Here's what I would buy. Granted, they're only plastic, but do you really need anything else? For those who need European Birch, be my guest.

 

RE: Where there's a will, there's a relative, posted on February 24, 2017 at 09:33:50
The Dill
Audiophile

Posts: 2199
Location: Portland, Oregon
Joined: July 1, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 3, 2016
 elc876 said: "When I posed the question, I didn't mean for it to be taken literally. I was wondering not how much it would cost ME to make, but a company that already has much of the equipment needed for this and similiar projects. Apparently, they make many variations of record dividers and related items. It just seems to me that once their initial costs for machinery, materials, and labor are met, there still is ample room for profit. And at those prices, quite a large one. That's just my take. I may be wrong. And many here would say, what's wrong with this? It's capitalism at its finest. "

You forgot to figure, taxes, rent, electricity, water, phone service, computers, online service, website cost, business, health and liability insurance, etc. Add everything up and it doesn't leave much room for profit.

Have you ever owned your own successful business?

 

Do you think $50 for this makes sense too?, posted on February 24, 2017 at 09:55:50
Rick W
 Despite all of what you posted, do you know anybody who bought or will buy those dividers, or the "product" I've linked? I don't. Will you be buying and/or recommending them?

Do you know whether or not they are in fact a successful business?

 

RE: Record Storage for the rich?, posted on February 24, 2017 at 10:07:06
bare
Audiophile

Posts: 1879
Joined: April 14, 2009
 Hey! I'm balking at paying 80$ for an IKEA 'Kallax' storage unit.
Which fit's Lps like it was expressly made for that purpose.
(might be.. dunno?)
Not likely to pay Large for file folders :-)

 

RE: Where there's a will, there's a relative, posted on February 24, 2017 at 10:08:57
ecl876
Audiophile

Posts: 3416
Location: Bend, Oregon
Joined: January 14, 2007
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2012
 " Have you ever owned your own successful business?"

Yes, I have and I realize those expenses are not minor. Perhaps I should have put it another way. For ME, paying that much money for a set of record dividers would be wasteful and overindulgent. But I feel that way about many things, particularly in audio: speakers, turntables, cables, cartridges, etc. Everyone's different. For those who can afford are willing to pay those prices, there's certainly no shortage of options these days.

 

RE: Do you think $50 for this makes sense too?, posted on February 24, 2017 at 10:14:03
ecl876
Audiophile

Posts: 3416
Location: Bend, Oregon
Joined: January 14, 2007
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2012
 $50 doesn't seem unreasonable for the wood wall mount. It looks well constructed. No to the rest of your questions.

 

RE: Do you think $50 for this makes sense too?, posted on February 24, 2017 at 10:38:20
The Dill
Audiophile

Posts: 2199
Location: Portland, Oregon
Joined: July 1, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 3, 2016
 Rick W said: "Despite all of what you posted, do you know anybody who bought or will buy those dividers, or the "product" I've linked? I don't."

- No, I do not know someone that has bought these, I do not need the dividers for my under 1000 record collection and I have made a similar wall record jacket holder for my dedicated listening room I had back in the 90's.

Rick W said: "Will you be buying and/or recommending them?"

- I will not be a buyer, however I would recommend both products if I encounter someone with those needs and don't think their products are unreasonable at their price points.

Rick W said: "Do you know whether or not they are in fact a successful business?"

- From their website below, it looks like they might be.

 

Uh, no., posted on February 24, 2017 at 12:29:21
ToddM
Audiophile

Posts: 1612
Location: Atlanta, USA
Joined: May 15, 2001
Contributor
  Since: June 13, 2005
 That could easily be a leftover from a construction project. I grew up in a family of contractors, carpenters, electricians, etc and while I'm not in that line of work myself, a piece of wood with a dado groove cut in it and two screw fittings in the back isn't a $50 product I'd buy.

It may look nice, and if you're just doing one, it becomes more attractive and less, um, shyster-y. Home decor & any kind of design stuff is all like that, though, so if you buy into it, that's your choice. There are worse things.

 

Skip the Starbucks for two months and their yours! nt, posted on February 24, 2017 at 12:48:41
risabet
Audiophile

Posts: 3197
Location: SoCal
Joined: January 10, 2005
 Nt
Science is the great antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition.

Adam Smith

 

my issue with this isn't the cost. . . , posted on February 24, 2017 at 12:57:26
risabet
Audiophile

Posts: 3197
Location: SoCal
Joined: January 10, 2005
 It's the loss of storage space which is already at a premium.
Science is the great antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition.

Adam Smith

 

A five by five sheet of . . ., posted on February 24, 2017 at 13:07:20
risabet
Audiophile

Posts: 3197
Location: SoCal
Joined: January 10, 2005
 .25 inch Baltic birch ply cost about $60 retail. You'll get a max of 20 per sheet so 1.25 sheets if there is no waste not counting the tabs so add a little material for those and you got a base cost of around $100 @ retail. Price actually seems fair to me.


Science is the great antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition.

Adam Smith

 

Let them use cake., posted on February 24, 2017 at 22:56:22
theophile
Audiophile

Posts: 1266
Location: australia
Joined: July 16, 2003
 With apologies to Marie Antoinette.

 

RE: Record Dividers for the rich?, posted on February 25, 2017 at 02:07:02
ecl876
Audiophile

Posts: 3416
Location: Bend, Oregon
Joined: January 14, 2007
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2012
 Here's one for the plebians. No European birch HERE. This one's made of plywood but it's LASER CUT! And only $230. I wonder whether it'll fit in my VINYL FLATTENER when it warps.

 

RE: Record Dividers for the rich?, posted on February 25, 2017 at 08:14:10
The Dill
Audiophile

Posts: 2199
Location: Portland, Oregon
Joined: July 1, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 3, 2016
 They laser cut everything, bet you can get them in metal too.

 

Same here. nt, posted on February 25, 2017 at 08:20:33
DRam
Audiophile

Posts: 1309
Location: Montana
Joined: July 30, 2005
 nt

 

How about gold plated??? Nt., posted on February 25, 2017 at 09:16:41
ecl876
Audiophile

Posts: 3416
Location: Bend, Oregon
Joined: January 14, 2007
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2012
 .

 

And mine are not arranged at all. )MT(, posted on February 25, 2017 at 12:33:17
J. S. Bach
Audiophile

Posts: 9578
Location: Chester, SC
Joined: November 28, 2001
Contributor
  Since: June 29, 2004

Later Gator,
Dave
Find more about Weather in Chester, SC

 

You're surprised? , posted on February 26, 2017 at 05:24:49
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 A fool and his money...

A hobby that has passionate defenders of cables costing four and five figures which any engineer will tell you makes no sense, tweaks consisting of little more than plastic and wire costing thousands of dollars and
THIS RIDICULOUS THING (see "are you kidding me??" below) will easily bear these relatively modestly priced dividers.

 

Winner. - The high school AV cart for $3.8k is completely offensive on every level. (nt). , posted on February 26, 2017 at 06:09:23
marc-homeslice
Audiophile

Posts: 2888
Location: Bucks Co. Pennsylvania
Joined: March 17, 2003
 nt

 

RE: You're surprised? , posted on February 26, 2017 at 08:09:08
ecl876
Audiophile

Posts: 3416
Location: Bend, Oregon
Joined: January 14, 2007
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2012
 I posted about this in 2015 and you responded.

 

RE: Record Dividers for the rich?, posted on February 26, 2017 at 11:17:46
mosin
Manufacturer

Posts: 10719
Joined: July 24, 2003
 I'd pay $230 for anodized aluminum or paperstone ones.

 

RE: You're surprised? , posted on February 26, 2017 at 15:52:41
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Indeed!

That thing and Bybee "room neutralizer" are my go-to "wtf are you thinking" to illustrate just throwing away money.

Although I DO qualify the room neutralizer statement because I've never heard an actual before and after so... yeah. But still... plastic box with a wire dangling out of the bottom.

But the record storage cart is truly ridiculous beyond all ridiculousness. MAYBE if it's an art object and I'm a big fan of the artist I can see the appeal. But that would be because there are enough other maniacs around that would drive the price up or a least keep it the same. If that's the case with this and I'm just not familiar with the artist, then I take it back.

 

"made in Brooklyn", posted on February 27, 2017 at 08:50:03
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 One rationale for the cost of the rack you referenced ($4000 to hold ~500 LPs) is that it is or was manufactured in Brooklyn, where costs of doing business are presumably high. Yet, I recently had a record rack custom built for me by a furniture company in Brooklyn; it holds 800 LPs and cost $800. Looks a lot nicer than the IKEA competition, as well. (Cherry veneer on plywood).

 

RE: I agree. My categorization isn't alphabetical! , posted on February 27, 2017 at 22:45:48
Supercool!
Audiophile

Posts: 703
Location: East Coast
Joined: August 5, 2004
 Sorry to diverge..but Im wondering how you guys categoriE Classical titles with more than one composer..??

 

RE: I agree. My categorization isn't alphabetical! , posted on February 27, 2017 at 22:50:15
Supercool!
Audiophile

Posts: 703
Location: East Coast
Joined: August 5, 2004
 Sorry thought I had "quoted" spin doctor.on this..

 

RE: I agree. My categorization isn't alphabetical! , posted on February 28, 2017 at 04:41:50
spindoctor
Audiophile

Posts: 1663
Location: Virginia
Joined: December 31, 2002
 For me, I have a section titled Compilations- and subdivided by quiet listening and . I have a few conductors I like such as Igor Markevitch and his works have a separate section. So does Alan Hovhaness who I also like a lot and have most of his works on lp. I also will file by the composer if there is a key piece that I particularly enjoy. But I also have a section for certain labels that I like such as Westminster and Telarc... Sounds like chaos but works for me.

Sim

 

RE: Where there's a will, there's a relative, posted on February 28, 2017 at 05:58:19
Tubegroover
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Joined: May 18, 2000
 The thing that many may not take into consideration is that what one can do it for at home and what a business with all associated costs has to sell it for to remain in business are two completely different equations and for all purposes irrelevant.

It cost plenty to operate a small business particularly when you take into consideration rent for space in a city such as San Francisco. Workers wages including labor burden and benefits, utilities, equipment, materials, taxes etc. It's not a cheap proposition and always full of risk. Whether or not the price is too high or not will be borne out by the market demand. Yes capitalism at it's finest is just that, someone willing to take a risk on an idea with their own capital. If it's a great idea, others may contribute to the risk as well :)

 

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