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Opinion Request. Best all around cart?

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Posted on January 20, 2017 at 11:20:41
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 I was reading the ART-AT9 question and I was thinking that since I listen to both Blues/Rock and classical and everything in between, what MM or MC cart will make me happy?

Let's keep in mind a relatively sane amount of money spent on components. We're talking Technics SL or VPI Prime tables here.

5 figure electronics or even any TT over 5k should not be considered in this equation.

 

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RE: Opinion Request. Best all around cart? , posted on January 20, 2017 at 12:20:01
SteveBrown
Audiophile

Posts: 2454
Location: Portland, OR
Joined: November 14, 2002
 I LOVE my ZYX Bloom R50 in my VPI Classic II. Amazing and while expensive (by my standards), it isn't terrible but it's also not likely to be replaced any time soon.

 

RE: Opinion Request. Best all around cart? , posted on January 20, 2017 at 12:31:42
teenage diplomat
Audiophile

Posts: 896
Location: burke, va usa
Joined: February 3, 2001
 Is there such a thing as the best overall cart, much less, best overall for the money? First of all, very few people listen to all genres of music. Next, there is the question of cartridge/tonearm synergy to consider. Then, one must consider the budget.

Having said all that, I would nominate the best MM I've ever heard, the clearaudio maestro wood v2. It combines the punch of MM with much of the refinement of a good MC. At $1200 new, and less used, it's a relative bargain. Hope this helps.

 

RE: Opinion Request. Best all around cart? , posted on January 20, 2017 at 15:54:04
flood2
Audiophile

Posts: 2558
Joined: January 11, 2011
 Do you want absolute neutrality or do you want something that has a different "flavour" to it?
If you want the former then I would suggest a Denon DL304 - still available from LPgear for a price that is very reasonable for the performance.
Technically superb - very low tip mass and almost perfect tracking ability being able to easily track 100um at 1.3g (with mine). Ruler flat response and a smooth realistic soundstage.
If you want a slightly flavoured sound then try an AT MC such as the AT33PTGII or an OC9MLII which are slightly "cooler" but still technically very capable. I use all of those cartridges in my SL1200 for transcription and I don't want them to favour any one type of music.
Regards Anthony

"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats

 

Thank you!, posted on January 20, 2017 at 16:27:08
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Great suggestions that I never would have thought of! My list is shorter now.

 

RE: Opinion Request. Best all around cart? , posted on January 20, 2017 at 17:32:48
Jive Turkey
Audiophile

Posts: 2409
Location: far left, geographically speaking
Joined: May 5, 2010
 If possible, consider the Ortofon 2M Black MM cart. Does a ton right and zero wrong in my system.

See ya. Dave

 

RE: I have to agree. nt, posted on January 20, 2017 at 18:55:22
Travis
Audiophile

Posts: 6170
Location: La Grange, Texas
Joined: November 25, 2001
 .
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok

 

Look into a Dynavector 20x2.., posted on January 20, 2017 at 19:29:24
marc-homeslice
Audiophile

Posts: 2888
Location: Bucks Co. Pennsylvania
Joined: March 17, 2003
 Would be a real natural partner with a VPI. While I've had a few more impactful moments in certain areas with Shelter, Soundsmith, Grado, Denon, Sumiko, etc.. This may be the best all-rounder i've had.. It simply does nothing really wrong in my opinion.

 

That's what I plan for my next cart for my Scout. nt, posted on January 20, 2017 at 21:21:11
JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
 .
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

agreed , posted on January 21, 2017 at 05:21:25
cpielock@eaglebrook.org
Audiophile

Posts: 524
Location: western mass
Joined: May 11, 2004
 I've had very expensive cartridges to modestly priced ones . I have been ultra happy with my Clearaudio Maestro. The Soundsmith ruby cantilever and tip bring it to another level by the way!

Cheers,Chet Even on this dark day of USA history!

 

RE: Look into a Dynavector 20x2.., posted on January 21, 2017 at 06:52:43
kenvab
Audiophile

Posts: 31
Location: Tidewater, Virginia
Joined: April 26, 2012
 I feel the same about my 20X2, very hard to beat for its price, does a lot of things very well.

 

RE: Look into a Dynavector 20x2.., posted on January 21, 2017 at 07:35:03
marc-homeslice
Audiophile

Posts: 2888
Location: Bucks Co. Pennsylvania
Joined: March 17, 2003
 That said.. as primarily.. a Rock n Rolla, Soul, Psych, Indie kind've listener.. with a big slate idler and heavy arm, my system sounds a little more alive with a rebodied, retyped Denon 103 type.. but that could easily be an arm compatibility thing. I got the Dyna when my SS Denon went down cause I got a great deal on it.. and I wanted to hear one.. but it's really on the border for my setup.

It's reputation was that it now has more in common with the XX-2 and I wouldn't be surprised. I'd like to hear it on a medium mass arm.. and I'd be really curious to hear what one sounds like with a finer cantilever while keeping the micro-ridge tip.

 

RE: Opinion Request. Best all around cart? , posted on January 21, 2017 at 08:12:37
Biff
Audiophile

Posts: 7527
Location: Portland, Oregon
Joined: January 27, 2002
 If it's anything like my DL-300, it's got to be great.

 

RE: agreed , posted on January 21, 2017 at 08:57:34
Ric
Audiophile

Posts: 364
Joined: October 14, 2001
 Yes, I have had the maestro wood for years. Previously I had a Dynavector (sorry can't remember which model, but it wasn't cheap) and it was a bit bright on my system. Before that I had the Shure VxMr etc. and it was a bit boring and flat sounding in comparison. My vote is for the Maestro as well. Good luck!

 

RE: Inbreeding is a bad thing, posted on January 21, 2017 at 10:48:56
kitch29



A lack of diversity and an increasingly limited number of posters here compared to 5, 10 or 15 years ago has created a corresponding limit to the experience of the group. Simply look over the Archives for proof.

The lack of experience means the same half-dozen tables, carts and phono stages get recommended over and over. Some threads have more +1s as titles than names of components!

Take a chance people. There are other brands than the few named over and over. It's still possible to buy used carefully enough so as to sell without loss if your purchase doesn't suit.

 

RE: Inbreeding is a bad thing, posted on January 21, 2017 at 11:43:00
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 I guess it is what it is but I appreciate posters who are actually using the equipment they are talking about.

If the herd is getting thin, well that's something we have little control over.

As far as taking a chance with equipment, although I am always buying blind at thrifts aware that it's 50/50 something can be restored or even worth restoring, when it comes to the main system (where it's about fiddle-free listening) I, and I think others, need to get everything sorted quickly.

But I know what you mean. It happens on many forums that are about esoteric pursuits like audio. If you think this is bad, go to the mead forums. There are like 30 regulars and that's it. But it's no use lamenting it. At least there are 30 like-minded individuals on there. There are more than that here!

 

RE: Inbreeding is a bad thing; or not, posted on January 21, 2017 at 12:09:29
Dave Garretson
Audiophile

Posts: 2448
Joined: June 14, 2005
 I can't comment on the ART9, but I own an ART7. I would place it in the top echelon of cartridges I have compared it to on identical SME 3012R arms on a modified Luxman PD444. Comparisons include Accuphase AC-5, Denon DL-S1, Grace F9 with Soundsmith OCL stylus, Lyra Helikon with Soundsmith OCL retip, and vintage Ortofon MC2000, Stanton 981LZS, Precept PC550ML, Signet TK100LC, Astatic MF100, AT 20SS. The ART7 has perhaps the calmest neutral presentation of the bunch and natural detail and timbre. You can't go wrong with these top AT cartridges.

 

RE: Opinion Request. Best all around cart? , posted on January 21, 2017 at 13:21:09
flood2
Audiophile

Posts: 2558
Joined: January 11, 2011
 Denon LOMCs seem to be excellent value for the money. My only beef with them is the slightly variable alignment quality such as tip azimuth errors or skewed cantilevers. Other than that they sound superb.
Regards Anthony

"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats

 

RE: Opinion Request. Best all around cart? , posted on January 21, 2017 at 13:23:37
A.Wayne
Audiophile

Posts: 2527
Location: Front row center
Joined: November 30, 2011
 Manny,

Did you take Bill Stevenson up on his offer and listen ...?? Good opporturnity to hear what you are looking at ...

 

Have to agree., posted on January 21, 2017 at 14:29:02
Eddieh
Audiophile

Posts: 297
Location: Canada
Joined: December 19, 2003
 I have a Dynavector XX-2 MkII that I love - having had the XX-1 and XX-2H I am partial to the Dynavector house sound. Then I got an irresistible deal on a Dynavector 20X2L. When I listened to it it sounded so good that I left it in for several months while I debated whether I should call it "good enough" and sell the XX-2, it was *that* good. Then when I got the urge to fiddle and put the XX-2 back in it did sound better so yeah, it's worth the extra coin but honestly, the 20X2L doesn't give up much at all.

 

You missing Felix, a/k/a Fear2000? ;-), posted on January 21, 2017 at 16:00:41
JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 6622
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
 I mostly lurked back then, but it was a hoot to follow all the various personalities here in the late 1990s and very early 2000s.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

RE: You missing Felix, a/k/a Fear2000? ;-), posted on January 21, 2017 at 17:31:02
raya
Industry Professional

Posts: 662
Joined: May 9, 2014
 I can't recommend the best cartridge but i can tell you the Benz Micro Glider and Woodies are nice. I've also found a way to make a Denon 103 come very close to a Benz for a very little price. Run them nude with a carbon top plate.

 

Used a Dyna 20XL on my Scout years ago. Great match. /nt\, posted on January 21, 2017 at 17:48:26
Opus 33 1/3
Audiophile

Posts: 4184
Location: D.C. Area
Joined: February 19, 2014




Opus 33 1/3

 

RE: Opinion Request. Best all around cart? , posted on January 21, 2017 at 19:43:13
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 I would love to! But I don't see the post you refer to and doesn't he live in Virginia? That's a long bike ride for me. :)

 

Hard to beat for the money. (nt), posted on January 22, 2017 at 07:29:59
Vinyl Valet
Audiophile

Posts: 1346
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Joined: November 13, 2003
 nt
Open up your mind, in pours the trash. - Meat Puppets, 1987

 

RE: Opinion Request. Best all around cart? , posted on January 22, 2017 at 10:54:14
bill_stevenson@bellsouth.net
Audiophile

Posts: 418
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Joined: January 6, 2015
 I am not sure what the term "Best All Around..." means. Best for what? I can tell you that the cartridge that sounds the best to me is Ortofon's Per Windfeld, which is clean, natural, and musical, but is quite expensive. For years I went back and forth between the Stanton 681 and Shure V15 series. I still like these a lot. Then there is the Goldring 1012 and 1042 that still are available and still sound damn good. Too, I like my Ortofon 2M Black and it's mono mate the 2M Mono SE. I haven't heard the Clearaudio, but feel sure I would like it. Taken all factors into consideration, if only one cartridge were to be THE ONE, mine would be a MM for their overall practicality. In the more affordable MC field, in addition to the already mentioned Denon and Audio Technica cartridges, you might also like to consider the Hana E and S series available as high or low output. I could be quite happy for life with any of these.

 

Like asking: Best all around vehicle, or best all around home, or best all around album. nt, posted on January 22, 2017 at 20:34:41
3+4=5
 .

 

RE: Like asking: Best all around vehicle, or best all around home, or best all around album. nt, posted on January 23, 2017 at 06:24:05
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Best all around vehicle - Toyota Land Cruiser.

Best all around home - Park Avenue penthouse with outdoor garden

Best all around album - A photo album with your family pictures..

:) :) :)

 

RE: Opinion Request. Best all around cart? , posted on January 23, 2017 at 09:19:11
A.Wayne
Audiophile

Posts: 2527
Location: Front row center
Joined: November 30, 2011
 No he lives in Palm beach .....

 

RE: You missing Felix, a/k/a Fear2000? ;-), posted on January 23, 2017 at 09:21:01
A.Wayne
Audiophile

Posts: 2527
Location: Front row center
Joined: November 30, 2011
 How do you compare that mod to the Zu, the Zu comes highly rated ...

 

RE: Opinion Request. Best all around cart? , posted on January 23, 2017 at 10:05:31
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 OH... isn't he KT88? I would certainly go up there... Pinging him.

 

RE: Opinion Request. Best all around cart? , posted on January 23, 2017 at 10:26:58
A.Wayne
Audiophile

Posts: 2527
Location: Front row center
Joined: November 30, 2011
 This guy ....

bill_stevenson@bellsouth.net

 

I am not sure I agree that there is less diversity of opinion,..., posted on January 23, 2017 at 14:04:09
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 even though you may be correct in your idea that there are fewer of us posting.
I became a regular inmate about 10 years ago. At that time, the responses to a post such as this one would have been not about which cartridge but which version of the DL103 was better or worse than another version of the DL103. In that respect, some progress has been made.

 

Yup, Land Cruiser, best cornering machine I know of . . . nt, posted on January 23, 2017 at 15:40:19
alaskahiatt
Audiophile

Posts: 7501
Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
  Since: November 1, 2005



nt

 

RE: Yup, Land Cruiser, best cornering machine I know of . . . nt, posted on January 23, 2017 at 17:05:57
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Look at that... it's even good for derby... It does everything!

 

Agreed, posted on January 23, 2017 at 18:12:25
tlea
Audiophile

Posts: 579
Location: New Orleans
Joined: January 20, 2002
Contributor
  Since: October 29, 2006
 When I first started following this forum back before the turn of the century, the Rega Planar 3/RB300/Sumiko Blue Point combo was widely proclaimed to be the affordable gold standard, and everything else was judged as better or worse. Direct-drive decks like the Technics SL-1200 were barely considered worthy of discussion, and anything made by Denon was ranked with Sony and Pioneer as mid-fi or lower.

As They Might Be Giants (or somebody) said, "Everything Right Is Wrong Again".


. . . in theory, practice and theory are the same; in practice, they are different . . .

 

Indeed!, posted on January 23, 2017 at 19:25:56
flood2
Audiophile

Posts: 2558
Joined: January 11, 2011
 It's a Groupthink mentality. Audio, Wine, Art... all of those subjective hobbies are full of it!
Regards Anthony

"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats

 

RE: Agreed???, posted on January 24, 2017 at 07:13:19
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 You say you "agree" with the OP, but the content of your post suggests otherwise, unless you think that the discourse was richer when the Rega Planar 3 (and for me the Denon DL103) was a dominant topic. Like I wrote below, I think that perhaps we do have fewer participants, but the content seems more diverse than it was 10 years ago.

 

RE: Agreed???, posted on January 24, 2017 at 18:46:39
tlea
Audiophile

Posts: 579
Location: New Orleans
Joined: January 20, 2002
Contributor
  Since: October 29, 2006
 I agree with sentiment of the OP which I interpret to be that a relatively few "loud" voices have fostered a narrow, self-important tone on this forum. I used an example to point out the fickle nature of the so-called popular opinion. The Rega P3+Blue Point setup was considered the accessible dream 15 years ago, but now it is roundly dissed. Direct-drive DJ decks like the Technics, once sneered at, are now exalted. The quality of those components hasn't changed (and I've owned both), only the hype. Unlike other AA forums. the VA largely has lost its relevance as an exchange for valid, useful information and has devolved into something resembling a chat group for a small set of individuals. I do not agree that the content is more diverse than 10 years ago. To the contrary, I feel that it is more insular and exclusive than ever. Yes, I still participate, because there's really no other game in town, but like the OP I wish the experience could be more broadminded.




. . . in theory, practice and theory are the same; in practice, they are different . . .

 

RE: Agreed???, posted on January 24, 2017 at 20:21:27
flood2
Audiophile

Posts: 2558
Joined: January 11, 2011
 I commented elsewhere about the Groupthink mentality that exists in any community. It is a major problem in many organisations where people are too scared to correct the boss and it's an easier ride to just agree with everything and not rock the boat. It exists on every forum too to various levels although because participation is voluntary not mandatory people remain lurking or simply walk away.
New people who appear to be either correcting the Loud Voice or offering a differing opinion usually end up being either ignored or attacked. They have to Earn Credibility (even if it is clear they know more) since Unknown Unknowns prevent people from making the correct decision. In other words they are in the Outgroup until such times as they fall in line as it were and appear to be like the rest or the Loud Voice endorses them.

The shift in the Revered Products lineup is simply another example of Groupthink. Perhaps the original has moved on or a new Alpha has taken his place by proving that the original dominant voice got it wrong to the point where no one would disagree. This may be from another "respected" source such as Fremer or whoever. In which case the pecking order is apparent!

As far as the diversity of content goes...that shifts with the type of individuals still participating and reflects the majority interest. Topics only stay alive if people comment on someone else's post. The number of replies I get to mine is a tiny fraction of what I write. It's clear that people only choose to reply to what they wish to (which is their choice). The days of good manners where people acknowledge and thank a sender for the supply of information are long gone. This must happen to everyone so I'm not complaining about that but in turn I'm sure it would be obvious that many people just walk away thinking "why bother". I know I do and I think that's why the forum is greatly diminished in both quality of content and quantity of participants.
Just saying!
Regards Anthony

"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats

 

Ditto. This joint has mostly become a boring bandwagon for a small slice of products available. nt, posted on January 25, 2017 at 09:25:42
Rick W
 nt

 

RE: You missing Felix, a/k/a Fear2000? , posted on January 26, 2017 at 00:00:07
Ken Lyon
Audiophile

Posts: 1332
Joined: April 4, 2000
 I sure do- this place could use a few succinct death spirals to route out the chaff. lol.


best,
k

 

RE: Opinion Request. Best all around cart? , posted on January 29, 2017 at 11:19:38
MAS
Audiophile

Posts: 2328
Joined: February 26, 2002
 To be a good all rounder, I think you need good tracking, neutral frequency response, and good resolution. The Sound-smith Zenith MKii I own has supplied that in my system. I listen to lots of jazz and rock of different styles, as well as some classical piano and violin. The Zepyr is a very natural sounding cartridge, and tracks well enough for me. I can't abide mistracking muted trumpet or Louis Armstrong vocals, which can be a problem for some cartridges. I also like the economical rebuilds, although turnaround times (6-8 weeks for me on my two retips) could be better.

 

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