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Need tonearm advice...Empire 980 vs Empire 990

50.1.55.200
Posted on January 17, 2017 at 21:30:45
Mr Blue Sky
Audiophile

Posts: 909
Location: Central California
Joined: May 23, 2003
 I'm using an Empire 980 tonearm with an Excel ES-28 cartirdge. There is no data available that I can find on the Excel, but I'm guessing it's medium compliance. The stylus I'm using specifies 1 to 3 grams and I'm tracking at about 2.9. Sound is fine as is performance on a test lp. The problem is that I'm blowing through styli. Why? Because after about four to six months, the cantilever is bent as though the arm is skating in hard toward the label. My Empire 980 is the anti-skate version, so I've tried adding more anti-skate and installed a fresh stylus. We'll see what happens. I suspect, however, that the real issue is that this arm is way to heavy for the rather compliant Excel cartridge. Thus said, a friend of mine has an Empire 990 tonearm. He says he will trade me. So my question is that I am wondering if anyone knows if this would represent an improvement in terms of synergy. Is the 990 arm that much lower mass than the 980? It looks very similar. Thanks!

 

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Here's my 980 story, posted on January 18, 2017 at 05:57:51
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 I had one on an Empire table, pretty much dedicated to playing 78 rpm records. For that kind of duty it worked fine, but ultimately came apart at the "headshell" area and had other problems. Like, hum.

I had heard that the Jelco SA-750D (9" arm) was a drop-in replacement. It is. And it simply transformed the sonics, to a point where I use it pretty much interchangeably with my main table, a much-modded Lenco. I had a VPI JMW 10.5i arm on that table ... and now have a Lenco SA-750E (10") on it. It's that good.

And cheap to boot. The replacement Jelco arm for the Empire cost under $450, plus a DIN wiring harness. As far as I'm concerned, it was the bargain of the century.

 

RE: Here's my 980 story, posted on January 18, 2017 at 08:28:44
AudioSoul
Audiophile

Posts: 4594
Location: north central AZ
Joined: July 9, 2005
I have installed two Jelco SA-750D arms on Empire 208's. They are not drop in replacements if you want to get the geometry right. It's still not hard , if you can use a metal file, you have to elongate the existing hole in the alloy plinth (takes about 1/2 hour) and drill new holes for the Jelco base. If you feel comfortable doing this work you will be rewarded with great sound. The Empire turntables are worth the expense and the effort....

 

RE: Here's my 980 story, posted on January 18, 2017 at 08:37:09
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 Well, I elongated the 3 bolt holes, not the center hole that didn't require enlarging, and my protractor said everything was copasetic. THEN I discovered if iI used the old Empire arm's collar rather than the one that came with the Jelco, it WAS a drop-in replacement.

 

Qaulity of Jelco arms, posted on January 18, 2017 at 11:38:53
Jeff Maxson
Audiophile

Posts: 969
Joined: January 6, 2002
 I'm exceptionally happy w/my 750L (12"). I've replaced the base with one from TTW (blown out before they went out of business). And I use Yamamoto headshells. But it makes the Koetsu Onyx sound awfully sweet. Better than with my Schroeder, but that's probably b/c the effective mass is a better match for the cart.

 

RE: Need tonearm advice...Empire 980 vs Empire 990, posted on January 18, 2017 at 12:35:53
Mr Blue Sky
Audiophile

Posts: 909
Location: Central California
Joined: May 23, 2003
 Some praise for the Jelco arms and claims to their superiority...I appreciate that, but could some of you elaborate as to what this means? How did the sound improve? Please be as specific as possible. One man's 'upgrade' is another man's horror.

 

RE: Here's my 980 story, posted on January 18, 2017 at 13:45:00
Mr Blue Sky
Audiophile

Posts: 909
Location: Central California
Joined: May 23, 2003
 Poked around on the web, finally found some reviews on the specific sonic qualities of the Jelco. "More extended, cleaner treble than my Rega"...not what I'm looking for. Sounds like the Jelco is not my kind of arm. I do not want clean, extended treble. I like a very warm, dark, full sound. Some might call it dull and boomy. That's fine with me. I like the sound of the Empire 980...no complaints. It's the performance I'm having issues with, thus the question about the 990.

 

Can't help you, then , posted on January 18, 2017 at 14:27:29
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 My own Empire arm never sounded like that, for which I'm quite grateful :-)

 

RE: Can't help you, then , posted on January 18, 2017 at 15:56:42
Mr Blue Sky
Audiophile

Posts: 909
Location: Central California
Joined: May 23, 2003
 That's interesting. Well, if you're willing, I would find it very helpful if you would describe the sound of the Empire in your system. Describe the sound of the Jelco.....and compare the two to one another. Very much appreciated.

 

Okay., posted on January 18, 2017 at 16:39:58
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 Take a look at my setup and goals on Inmate Systems. Note that warmth is one of my six sonic goals. With 29 tubes in the system it could hardly be otherwise.

We both have modded Lenco tuntables. As noted, I had a JMW 10.5i arm on mine. The Empire table/arm were used strictly for 78 rpm records of which I have hundreds. Frankly, given the way it sounded to me on LPs, it never occurred to me to use it that way. How DID it sound? Two-dimensional, uninvolving, generally mediocre in all respects, no matter what cartridge I used. Even with 78s it was distinctly lacking. I liked the way it looked much better than the way it sounded.

So when it essentially disintegrated, I was not unhappy at all. Enter the Jelco SA-750D... mostly because it was a drop-in replacement, pure and simple. But such an improvement in all ways, to the point where it begged to be used with LPs. And there it just floored me because it sounded wonderfully warm and yet clear, open and detailed.

What really amazed me is that it sounded way better to me than the MUCH more expensive JMW on the Lenco. So I bought another Jelco for the Lenco. End of story. I couldn't be happier with the way it all turned out.

Cartridges? Nine of them currently, as listed in Inmate Systems. Eight can be used on either table. The ninth, an Ortofon 78 rpm model, stays with the Empire and my 78s never sounded so good.

After all this personal experience I really don't see how you can stand listening to that Empire arm. But to each his own.

 

RE: Okay., posted on January 18, 2017 at 16:59:58
Mr Blue Sky
Audiophile

Posts: 909
Location: Central California
Joined: May 23, 2003
 Thanks for the write up. That's great information. May I ask, specifically, what did you not like about Empire arm? Are you saying that is what was un-involving and mediocre?

 

RE: Okay., posted on January 18, 2017 at 17:58:15
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 That's exactly what I'm saying, and I didn't know just how bad it was until I bought its successor ... for the wrong reason (that it was a drop-in replacement).

 

RE: Need tonearm advice...Empire 980 vs Empire 990, posted on January 18, 2017 at 18:11:49
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 The best thing about them is that they're reasonably priced compared to many tonearms these days. They also have removable headshells for convenient cartridge swapping and some models have oil damping, which is always an improvement. I bought a Jelco SA-370H for my son-in-law's Kenwood KD500 turntable.


 

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