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Did anyone ever play with a digital turntable.

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Posted on June 27, 2016 at 19:11:10
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 They say they are totally analog in the signal,but I'm still trying to get my thoughts around this.A phono cartridge works on electro-mechanical energy to produce the sound it picks up from riding the groove.I'm curious what process the laser uses to extract the information from the groove to reproduce the music and to keep it pure analog as it claims? It seems as tho it would have to do this by light or infrared energy and then covert it to analog? I just don't see how this eliminates the digital process? I;m not talking about the laser control,just strictly the audio portion.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

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RE: Did anyone ever play with a digital turntable., posted on June 27, 2016 at 19:19:58
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Go to elpj.com (they make a laser turntable) and read the documents there. Additionally, they have a link for questions. I think they would be most qualified to answer the question. I have to admit, I'm also curious as to hos they do it without digitizing anything. They say on the website that there is no digitization of the signal.

 

RE: Did anyone ever play with a digital turntable., posted on June 27, 2016 at 20:14:58
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 Why would digitization be necessary? Light can by used to produce an electrical analog signal of audio. It was done with movie film. Have you ever seen a 16-mm movie film with the sound track on one side? Light shining through the strip beside the pictures would vary in intensity to produce an analog of the audio signal. Anyway, it would probably be more difficult to digitize the audio signal from a record groove without first producing an electrical analog to send to an analog-to-digital converter.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

RE: Did anyone ever play with a digital turntable., posted on June 27, 2016 at 20:53:55
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Not saying anything is digitized. Just curious how they go from laser light to the vibration (or whatever it may be) that makes the sound. Iguess it is a variation of the light modulation technology used in the film you mention?

I have always been fascinated by how light became sound again.

 

I recall...., posted on June 27, 2016 at 21:17:29
slapshot
Audiophile

Posts: 2248
Joined: January 9, 2006
 ...this has come up before. More at the link.

 

RE: Did anyone ever play with a digital turntable., posted on June 28, 2016 at 00:46:23
coffee-phil
Audiophile

Posts: 1444
Location: Shingle Springs CA
Joined: January 7, 2010
 Even the Phillips laserdisc players are analog. The composite video signal as well as each channel of the sound frequency modulate their respective carriers which are put on to the disc. Later digital stereo was added using the same encoding scheme used for CDs and that signal was placed on the disc along the the existing analog FM carriers.

Phil

 

.Laser but not digital, posted on June 28, 2016 at 16:58:11
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 I'm surprised nobody here has tried one.But then I went to Google and found a few reviews. Not so good. Fremer said dirt on a record sounds like crunching potato chips. Its also very pricey like 10G for the better unit. Several users said the sound dulled after a year of use. Also black vinyl only.

ET
ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: Did anyone ever play with a digital turntable., posted on June 28, 2016 at 18:02:52
flood2
Audiophile

Posts: 2558
Joined: January 11, 2011
 Due to the slightly wider bandwidth requirements for PAL encoded video signals, the digital audio was only available for NTSC Laserdiscs AFAIK.
Regards Anthony

"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats

 

RE: Did anyone ever play with a digital turntable., posted on June 28, 2016 at 18:18:38
DaveV
Audiophile

Posts: 513
Location: SC
Joined: December 26, 2009
 Philco "Beam of Light" turntable 1941.

 

RE: Did anyone ever play with a digital turntable., posted on June 29, 2016 at 09:08:30
coffee-phil
Audiophile

Posts: 1444
Location: Shingle Springs CA
Joined: January 7, 2010
 Hi Anthony,

I was not aware that digital sound did not come to the PAL machines at the time it came to the NTSC machines.

Thanks for the info.

Phil

 

only one turntable at home, posted on June 30, 2016 at 00:50:01
jeromelang
Audiophile

Posts: 2303
Joined: February 2, 2001

Love it to bits!

 

RE: .Laser but not digital, posted on June 30, 2016 at 15:36:13
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 I can't comment because I have never heard one, but I'm leery about the "dulls after a year" thing. 10K isn't crazy considering an "entry" level high grade turntable is somewhere near 5K or more. (consider the VPI Prime + cart, for example).

Then keep in mind that I have heard that with heavy use a cart should be replaced every 3 to 5 years...and I haven't heard that the lasers need to be replaced with this kind of frequency...although I have no idea what the replacement interval is for the lasers and the cost...that could render that argument moot.

What I like about the laser turntable is that it forces the owner to really pay attention to what I feel is the most important part of owning a turntable which is the software. Records are much more precious than the playback system and the laser turntable really lets you know that.

I would love to live in world where all the posting and money is spent on making sure records are cleaned an preserved with the same vigor and interest that we spend on players. If only we could find $5 thrift store laser turntables! :)

 

You said BITS!!!, posted on July 3, 2016 at 05:02:16
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Must be digital. :)

 

RE: .Laser but not digital, posted on July 3, 2016 at 17:08:26
flood2
Audiophile

Posts: 2558
Joined: January 11, 2011
 I've had one since 2011 and the sound hasn't dulled! A laser ages due to temperature (which is also synonymous with use) and therefore the wavelength may shift and the maximum intensity decrease but that won't affect the frequency response. There must be something else going on with those users.
As I've mentioned before on this forum, it is not a reference grade piece of equipment - you only buy the ELP because you have a specific need for contactless playback. For example it is perfect for vintage discs. The "sound" will be different to a mechanical playback system because the sound is not being coloured by the LF resonance of the arm/cartridge. The negative reviews will be largely attributable to this issue and possibly also related to the quality of the analogue output stage. ELP offer the option of inbuilt RIAA eq (line level) or "normal" output. I chose the latter so I could still use my phono stage.

As for the "potato chip" crunch....it just means Fremer hadn't cleaned the discs adequately. The laser reads "everything" in the groove including dust and physical blemishes. The discs need to be scrupulously clean (wet clean) and dry. When this is achieved, playback is quite remarkably quiet. Having said that, I only use the ELP for transcription and I only listen to the mastered digital files after declicking and processing.
Regards Anthony

"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats

 

RE: Did anyone ever play with a digital turntable., posted on July 3, 2016 at 17:16:40
flood2
Audiophile

Posts: 2558
Joined: January 11, 2011
 In very simple terms...each wall has a dedicated laser (plus a separate laser tracking the groove shoulder for maintaining a consistent position in the groove) shining at the groove wall and the sound is reproduced by an optical assembly measuring the changes in reflected angle off the modulated groove wall.

People critical of the performance of the ELP relative to the purchase price are likely unaware of the complexities (and time required) in aligning the optics and also of the extremely limited number of units that can be produced (which is already compounded by a very small potential market). To be honest, as expensive as it is, I was actually quite surprised at how the price has come down relative to the original price for the GBP 20k!!!!
Regards Anthony

"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats

 

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