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Need some help with my Well Tempered Amadeus TT

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Posted on May 22, 2016 at 16:57:47
rottenclam
Audiophile

Posts: 184
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Joined: May 31, 2002
 I have not posted on an audiophile forum in a number of years because my system was relatively stable and my merry-go-round ride of swapping out components had slowed dramatically.

However, a strange thing has brought me here. After a very trouble-free existence, my Well Tempered Amadeus TT (with the original golf-ball tonearm - not the "symmetrex" arm) started behaving in a very bizarre manner. The speed of the platter is rock-solid (tested with a KAB Spped Strobe), but within a few minutes into dropping the stylus at the beginning of a record (multiple records tested), the speed drops to a very syrupy pace. Of course, I cannot test what speed it has dropped to because that would require my stylus to track a strobe disc. All I know is that the speed is slower and slower towards the middle of the record, with it eventually culminating into a crawl. I dont have the heart or the patience to see if it will eventually grind to a dead stop.

One of the things I checked was whether the golf ball was sitting in the center of the cup (I think I've read somewhere that if it is not centered, then you will inevitably has some problems), and it seems to be dead-center in the cup.

The external TT speed controller is left powered on all the time, but I dont think it is a problem with that little box.

I keep a dust cover on the whole rig when not in use, but surely some dust has dropped in there over the last 12-18 months. Is it required that I swap out the silicon fluid once every 6-12 months or so?

Perhaps it is major case of 'belt slippage', but I'm not inclined to think so.

Any experienced Well Tempered turntable owners out there ever encountered anything like this? My instinct is that I should clean out the cup and refill it with a fresh silicon fluid bath. That the problem is the tonearm drag that is eventually slowing down the TT over a given amount of time. But perhaps that is not the problem.

Thoughts?

 

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My suggestion, posted on May 22, 2016 at 17:13:40
vinyl survivor
Audiophile

Posts: 1471
Location: Southeastern US
Joined: November 28, 2007
 Post this on the AudioCircle website that is dedicated to Well Tempered owners. I posted the link below. The other option is to call Mike Pranka tomorrow who is the importer for Well Tempered turntables.

 

RE: Need some help with my Well Tempered Amadeus TT, posted on May 22, 2016 at 18:30:26
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17302
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 Using the strobe, does the platter slow down after the same amount of time when the stylus is not in the groove?

I have a hard time believing it has anything to do with the tonearm.

Motor, belt or platter bearing is where I'd look.

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: Need some help with my Well Tempered Amadeus TT, posted on May 22, 2016 at 20:19:42
AudioSoul
Audiophile

Posts: 4594
Location: north central AZ
Joined: July 9, 2005

I would check the bearing well to see if there is enough oil in it. The next thing is the belt. How long have you been using it? It may need to be replaced. If it is a rubber belt dip it in boiling water for two minutes and then put it in the freezer for awhile. Yes this works and if the speed stays constant get a new belt....

 

If he removed the belt and just spun the platter, posted on May 22, 2016 at 20:35:19
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15167
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 it should keep going for quite a while UNLESS it's out of oil.

 

RE: Need some help with my Well Tempered Amadeus TT, posted on May 23, 2016 at 15:28:12
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3365
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 Sounds like the poly thread belt has stretched. Nothing unusual.... I replace mine about every 6 months or so. Put on a new belt, recalibrate the speed and you'll think it's brand new again.

 

Ditto Check That Belt, posted on May 23, 2016 at 19:09:15
Sebrof
Audiophile

Posts: 634
Location: AusTX
Joined: July 12, 2002
 What Mick said and I replace mine 2 or 3 times a year as well. Easy to do and free, just get the thread material from a fabric store and make your own.

And as someone else mentioned go to Audio Circle's WTL sub forum.
Any questions feel free to IM me (if you can do that he here)

 

I do not have an amadeus :)., posted on May 23, 2016 at 19:35:20
Penguin
Audiophile

Posts: 7116
Location: Delaware
Joined: August 5, 2001
 but had a well tempered classic since 1985. Made various pulleys for it including a string pulley. the polly string will stretch and you either have to adjust for the stretch or replace it. first thing to check is the motor, if it spinning when it comes to a crawl then the string is slipping on the pulley. If the motor is stopped, well then it is either the controller, or the motor. if the motor is spinning and the belt is slipping, It could be still the bearing, take the belt off. put a marker, like a piece of tape on the platter spin it by hand and see how long it spins and where it stops, repeat multiple times and see if it stops at the same place or random places. If it does not spin long you need to see if the teflon v blocks are fully immersed in the goop. The goop is 50 cts silicon oil or some people have substituted it with mobil 1 but i would check with Mike Pranka before i would do that.. if the V block are fully lubed then check the bearing shaft if it is scratched up ur not smooth, both on the bottom and the sides. If the goop and shaft checks out, and the platter stops the same place may he bearing cup is damaged somehow. if the the platter spins long stops at random places then it can only be the belt. sounds long but in a matter of 10 minutes you can narrow it down to the cause.

dee
;-D

True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.

quote by Kurt Vonnegut

 

String, posted on May 23, 2016 at 19:59:15
Plinko
Audiophile

Posts: 1708
Location: N East, USA
Joined: July 21, 2005
 Agreed...replace the string (belt). The string for this string drive table eventually stretches and this can result in hokey speed stability.

Also, check to see if the platter is sitting on the spindle as designed. This can also affect the performance.

Hope things are going well with you!

 

RE: Need some help with my Well Tempered Amadeus TT, posted on May 23, 2016 at 21:31:02
rottenclam
Audiophile

Posts: 184
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Joined: May 31, 2002
 Wow. Thanks for all of the suggestions (including the one to look and/or post on a different forum).

Been doing erratic business travel so have not had time to go through all of the suggestions that were offered up, but believe me, I'll try them all. Had to crank some digital last night, and although it was fun, it will just never not compare. :(

Once I get a free 2-4 hours to create a new belt, re-lube the bearing well, inspect the pulley, etc - I'll report back.

Just wanted to thank everybody for suggestions in the short-term though.

 

But, but, but..., posted on May 24, 2016 at 08:12:32
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 I don't know why I am interested in your problem, but I am. So, could you please perform the simple experiments suggested by some others, and let us know what you find out? "Inquiring minds want to know." I would wager that most of us think the tonearm could not possibly be the culprit, for example. Seems like you now feel the same way.

And for your own sake, it would be worthwhile to do some elementary investigation before going through the rituals you mention.

 

Question, posted on May 24, 2016 at 08:22:49
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 My only direct experience with a WT turntable was with my friend's Reference. On that unit, if you disengage the belt, the platter flops over, because the belt itself formed the "third leg" of the support structure for keeping the platter level; it "pulls" the vertical support shaft under the platter up against what I think you are calling the V-block. Thus, you cannot really test the bearing without the belt around the platter. Does that pertain to these other models?

 

well it depends on a few things...., posted on May 24, 2016 at 09:18:55
Penguin
Audiophile

Posts: 7116
Location: Delaware
Joined: August 5, 2001
 I do not know if the reference moved the bottom support pin much closer to the center. in my classic the bottom pin is far enough off center that the platter stands up unless it is lightly pressed down on the arm side. in the Amadeus hey changed the points to teflon v blocks and the shaft is 1/4" thick, so i am not certain if it will stand up on its own without the belt pulling against the blocks. The bottom support pin is supposed to be off center so it has a wiping effect as the shaft passes over the tip of the support. So the spin test may be a bit difficult on the Amadeus :).

edit: on a second thought you can lift the arm side of the table a half inch or about, so gravity keeps the bearing engaged.


dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.

quote by Kurt Vonnegut

 

yup, posted on May 24, 2016 at 09:21:20
Penguin
Audiophile

Posts: 7116
Location: Delaware
Joined: August 5, 2001
 whatever Lew said :)

dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.

quote by Kurt Vonnegut

 

RE: well it depends on a few things...., posted on May 24, 2016 at 12:22:17
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 Do you think someone might have put some funky lubricant in the OP's bearing such that it has congealed or otherwise turned to glop that is impeding rotation? So, why then does it get worse over the course of playing an LP, I ask myself? Perhaps agitating the lubricant causes it to increase in viscosity dramatically. (This would go in the "impossible but true" category.) But the belt is certainly the number one suspect.

 

maybe simpler than that...., posted on May 24, 2016 at 13:06:25
Penguin
Audiophile

Posts: 7116
Location: Delaware
Joined: August 5, 2001
 It is slipping from the beginning. If i recall the the motor is rotating at 600 rpm or so. As it slips it gets the string warmer and warmer and it stretches more and more, when it is cold it is tighter :)....plausible? maybe it is just on the border of slipping without any load, the gram or two load from the cartridge generates enough friction to start slipping. If the OP can do the spin test that will eliminate the goop problem in the bearing .

who knows interesting problem.


Different question, the WTR you are familiar with, was it perfectly leveled? Also have to make sure the bearing is adjusted so the shaft is perfectly perpendicular to the top of the bearing cup. any tilt will make it unstable. This can be checked with a gage around the perimeter of the platter, when the bearing is fully engaged. If those conditions are true the platter will not flop by itself, or at least not supposed to be because the offset of the bottom support.


dee
;-D.


True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.

quote by Kurt Vonnegut

 

RE: Need some help with my Well Tempered Amadeus TT, posted on May 24, 2016 at 16:06:40
WntrMute2
Audiophile

Posts: 782
Location: Detroit
Joined: September 16, 2002
 There is a pretty easy way of checking speed while the record is playing. Place a clear record over the speed strobe and watch as the stylus traverses the record. Lucinda William's West is a clear record that I've used for this and there must be dozens of others.

 

Clean the plater rim before installing the new string/belt. nT, posted on May 24, 2016 at 19:22:15
M-dB
Audiophile

Posts: 295
Location: Nor Cal
Joined: June 26, 2014
 =

 

RE: Question, posted on May 25, 2016 at 16:52:57
TubeDriver
Audiophile

Posts: 794
Location: East Coast
Joined: February 16, 2007
 The original WT Reference platter should not fall over (sans belt) unless it is nudged over as long as the table is level.

I have heard your friends system, that was an impressive record collection!

 

Inquiring minds, posted on May 26, 2016 at 18:08:29
Penguin
Audiophile

Posts: 7116
Location: Delaware
Joined: August 5, 2001
 you know about them...right?

dee
;-D

True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.

quote by Kurt Vonnegut

 

I suppose you're correct,..., posted on May 27, 2016 at 11:39:40
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 it did stay up without the belt around it, but it was too precariously balanced without the belt to permit one to spin it without flop-over, I would have thought. Kept flopping over on me when I was trying to help align a new cartridge.

 

RE: I suppose you're correct,..., posted on May 27, 2016 at 16:31:08
TubeDriver
Audiophile

Posts: 794
Location: East Coast
Joined: February 16, 2007
 Every WT owner should have in their possession a small rubber wedge. This wedge holds the platter up when using a VTF gauge. You can spin the platter without the belt, you have to apply force to the platter from the motor side. But I agree, it is a pretty odd design. It does sound pretty good when dialed in correctly.

 

+1, posted on May 30, 2016 at 11:44:06
Penguin
Audiophile

Posts: 7116
Location: Delaware
Joined: August 5, 2001
 Not easy to give it a spin and make it stay upright, but not impossible.

dee
;-D

True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.

quote by Kurt Vonnegut

 

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