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how to a warp a record

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Posted on May 20, 2016 at 14:32:41
waltjohns
Audiophile

Posts: 102
Joined: November 15, 2009
 No, this is a serious question.

I'd always been under the impression that it was direct sunlight that was the culprit, not heat. I've bought records from out of really hot storage spaces that were flat as can be.

But today someone told me that leaving an LP anywhere in the car during the summer can be bad news, even if under the seat to protect from direct sunlight. I've done this before numerous times with no damage. But I've lately dug out a couple of LPs that made me wonder ... will 15 minutes under the seat in a car cause a warp?

Thanks

WJ

 

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RE: how to a warp a record, posted on May 20, 2016 at 16:11:26
Picklesnapper
Audiophile

Posts: 492
Location: East Coast U.S.
Joined: January 16, 2010
 I've been reading for years that the sort of temperatures that can be reached in a car on a warm sunny day are enough that records can warp but I've never experienced that myself. I don't know in what temperature range the plastics used in records actually begin to soften and can deform with any pressure.

It probably isn't the direct sunlight itself probably but the temperature extended over time that would seem to be the culprit here. Temperatures in cars with the windows closed sitting in direct sunlight can reach temperatures that can exceed 160 degrees F if not more in really hot places.

The thing is to not leave records in the car on sunny days if at all possible.

 

Maybe ..., posted on May 20, 2016 at 16:33:09
reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13133
Location: CT
Joined: June 7, 2005
Contributor
  Since: January 19, 2010
 I have no experience with leaving LPs in the car in high temps, but I once left 2 dozen carbon fiber arrows (as in bow and arrows) in my car for a few days in extremely high temps and when I went to use them not one of them was straight.

600 bux down the drain.

Cheaper to warp a record ...depending on the record.

Dean.




reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

RE: how to a warp a record, posted on May 20, 2016 at 17:17:24
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 I think the culprit is heat. How can direct sunlight be the problem if the record is inside its album cover?

 

Not only will it warp a record..., posted on May 21, 2016 at 04:12:58
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 But it will turn it into a vinyl uncooked personal pizza. I left a small stack of thrift finds (thankfully not anything valuable) on my backseat and forgot to get them until 2PM. When I remembered I ran outside to discover they were literally flopping around like uncooked dough. Straight to the recycle bin.

And for the record, no pun intended, it was the heat.

 

RE: how to a warp a record, posted on May 21, 2016 at 06:06:00
Condorsat
Audiophile

Posts: 1909
Location: NE Ohio
Joined: January 13, 2003
 I've had some records (excess inventory) that were stored in a basement.The basement is heated but unfinished. Nothing special, just stored in moving boxes that were laid up against a bare basement wall (no drywall).

The ones that were not moved in years and stacked at an angle under constant pressure vertically (normally the last one in the back) have managed to warp. The cover starting to bow is the first indication.


 

And the answer is, posted on May 21, 2016 at 06:48:53
Cpwill
Audiophile

Posts: 1096
Location: DC
Joined: December 22, 2003
Contributor
  Since: October 24, 2008
 provided by the late great John Hartford
"Anyone who understands jazz knows that you can't understand it. It's too complicated. That's what's so simple about it." - Yogi Berra.

Cpwill

 

RE: how to a warp a record, posted on May 23, 2016 at 02:52:10
Victor7
Audiophile

Posts: 96
Joined: September 23, 2015
 Walt,
I believe the temperature limit is 112-114C.
In some conditions a car bonnet can be hot enough to fry eggs. Try to park under trees if you can ;^)

Reminds me of holidays in Florida. Whenever you went down to the Mall just before opening time, all the prime spots under the trees were taken.
By the time you got back to your car and embarked, the passengers melted into the seats not just the LPs ;^)
Never buy chocolate in Florida ;^)

 

RE: how to a warp a record, posted on May 23, 2016 at 10:32:25
Paul Wilson
Reviewer

Posts: 97
Location: Southeast USA
Joined: October 7, 2014
 PVC is an elastomer and like all plastic materials has a melt index, the temperature at which it turns from a solid to a viscosity that will enable molding. For a generic PVC, that temperature is about 330 degrees F to 360 degrees F, depending on the actual formulation of PVC. However, the temperature at which thermal deflection, or getting soft, might occur is much lower. Again, depending on the specific resin used, thermal deflection should be expected as low as 120 to 130 degrees F and as high as maybe 150 degrees F. As it applies to an LP, a record left on a flat surface at an ambient temperature of 130 degrees F might not incur any physical damage or deformation because it is on a flat surface. Basically, there was no real way the part could deflect. One left on an uneven surface at the same ambient temperature, like a car seat for instance, might very well deform. Once the deformation has occurred, cooling the part (running the car's AC, for instance) will cause it to retain it's new shape - just like it was being molded in a factory. Because the inside temperature of an automobile on a hot summer day can easily reach 130 degrees F, LP deformation is a very real possibility. Melt index and thermal deformation are based more on temperature than time, so it should be expected that placing an album on an uneven surface in a hot car will quickly cause deformation. It depends on a lot of factors obviously, but the time for a PVC part to reach a temperature in an environment already at or near the heat distortion temperature is quite short. While direct sunlight will aid in heating the inside of a car, it is the ambient temperature that is the real culprit. The specific temperatures listed are for a generic PVC resin and not necessarily a finished, molded product such as an LP. However, the temperatures listed could be used as a guide for a molded part like an album. In short, don't leave LP's in a hot car in the summertime.

 

RE: how to a warp a record, posted on May 24, 2016 at 17:03:22
waltjohns
Audiophile

Posts: 102
Joined: November 15, 2009
 Here's another fun question: If my postman leaves a package on the doorstep (albeit hopefully out of the sun, since I have a sign posted for him to do so), would a slight warp result from exposure over an entire afternoon? Or, if it's the sun, would the prolonged exposure absolute cook it?

Just trying to determine whether a record was warped when sent, in transit, or because I wasn't there to get my mail.

Help!

WJ

 

RE: how to a warp a record, posted on June 10, 2016 at 06:11:30
Supercool!
Audiophile

Posts: 703
Location: East Coast
Joined: August 5, 2004
 I actually stop buying records by mail order in warm weather. I have a sign and a box out of sunlight which our horrible USPS carriers ignore 99.999% of the time leaving them right in the blistering noon sun.

I have had both experiences...some where the records do not warp and other where they have...also note that under heat the record may not warp but may still suffer heat damage. If you go through enough used records you'll find these and can see the wavyness across the surface of the record...sometimes it produces surface noise.


Why risk it?...conservative assumptions here will save grief and worry

 

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