AR AX T.T.

76.193.177.32

Posted on April 28, 2016 at 15:48:19

jtpzenith
Audiophile

Posts: 607
Joined: November 4, 2002

This is today's find from the thrift store. No dust cover ... no belt .... head shell ..... motor runs ....cartridge intact. It needs a lot of cleaning !! $7.00

Hide full thread outline!

RE: AR AX T.T.

john

07:25:05 04/30/16

RE: AR AX T.T.

Mister Pig

07:50:11 04/29/16

5

Wow, I like the changes, especiallty the vanilla top plate. How did

alaskahiatt

21:33:41 05/03/16

4

...

Show full thread outline!

RE: AR AX T.T.

john

07:25:05 04/30/16

RE: AR AX T.T.

Mister Pig

07:50:11 04/29/16

5

Wow, I like the changes, especiallty the vanilla top plate. How did

alaskahiatt

21:33:41 05/03/16

4

RE: Wow, I like the changes, especiallty the vanilla top plate. How did

Mister Pig

06:49:55 05/04/16

3

Ah, the tonearm looked so much like the original that I couldn't tell.

alaskahiatt

08:49:39 05/04/16

2

RE: Ah, the tonearm looked so much like the original that I couldn't tell.

Mister Pig

09:01:47 05/04/16

Thanks for the details and suggestions. I have never checked my VTA

alaskahiatt

11:42:23 05/04/16

RE: AR AX T.T.

briggs

07:15:57 04/29/16

8

RE: AR AX T.T.

hahax@verizon.net

12:24:28 04/29/16

4

RE: AR arm damping

M3 lover

17:15:52 04/29/16

3

RE: AR arm damping

hahax@verizon.net

20:28:13 04/29/16

2

RE: AR arm damping

Bill Way

16:45:23 04/30/16

RE: Mayware

M3 lover

11:32:09 04/30/16

RE: AR AX T.T.

sberger

08:16:30 04/29/16

2

I have one of the aftermarket headshells.

ToddM

10:46:20 04/29/16

I did not see any headshells on ebay..

briggs

09:18:37 04/29/16

RE: AR AX T.T.

painter27

17:55:20 04/28/16

RE: AR AX T.T.

fstein

16:42:38 04/28/16

RE: AR AX T.T.

sberger

08:22:39 04/29/16

RE: AR AX T.T.

6bq5

16:05:18 04/28/16

RE: AR AX T.T.

SteveBrown

15:55:35 04/28/16

RE: AR AX T.T.

sberger

08:23:19 04/29/16

RE: AR AX T.T., posted on April 28, 2016 at 15:55:35
SteveBrown Audiophile Posts: 2454 Location: Portland, OR Joined: November 14, 2002	There's something I've always liked about the simple design of the XA. You likely already know this but the plastic pins on the headshell are very fragile and break easily. Because of that, replacements are really hard to find!

RE: AR AX T.T., posted on April 28, 2016 at 16:05:18
6bq5 Audiophile Posts: 4385 Location: SF Bay Joined: August 16, 2001	My father still has his- though I doubt he has turned it on in years... Happy Listening

RE: AR AX T.T., posted on April 28, 2016 at 16:42:38
fstein Audiophile Posts: 2994 Location: fstein Joined: May 18, 2006	soundwise, how does it compare to todays tt?

RE: AR AX T.T., posted on April 28, 2016 at 17:55:20
painter27 Audiophile Posts: 5057 Location: wi. Joined: January 7, 2003	Nice find, is it a two motor?

RE: AR AX T.T., posted on April 29, 2016 at 07:15:57

briggs
Audiophile

Posts: 1674
Location: Connecticut
Joined: April 16, 2002

I have one I have used daily for years. Currently it is equipped with a Shure V15Vx/Jico SAS. I have no interest in replacing it.

There is a wealth of information on the AR Turntable at vinylnirvana.com.

Headshells are essentially unobtainable. Belts are abundantly advertised, but be careful. The ones I have ordered -- and returned -- were all metric dimension belts that were too small and stressed the motor. Fortunately I have a couple of original belts that are carefully maintained and work well.

An AR-XA that is basically sound and knowledgeably maintained is capable of very good performance. The arm is often criticized, and difficult to replace, but I found that, even with my limited skills, I could work with it.

RE: AR AX T.T., posted on April 29, 2016 at 07:50:11
Mister Pig Audiophile Posts: 535 Joined: September 21, 1999	Well you can give it an update or two and have look like this. I enjoy my XA quite a bit. Regards Mister Pig

RE: AR AX T.T., posted on April 29, 2016 at 08:16:30
sberger Audiophile Posts: 3433 Location: no. california Joined: October 25, 2002 Contributor Since: April 3, 2008	Very good aftermarket headshells are available on Ebay.

RE: AR AX T.T., posted on April 29, 2016 at 08:22:39
sberger Audiophile Posts: 3433 Location: no. california Joined: October 25, 2002 Contributor Since: April 3, 2008	Depends what you're comparing it against. $7 is a gift from heaven, but normally if you buy one of these for a couple hundred or so, and pay another couple hundred to get it updated/restored, you can have a killer table for a price that would buy you some very basic, very average modern table. And the XA will blow that table away.

RE: AR AX T.T., posted on April 29, 2016 at 08:23:19
sberger Audiophile Posts: 3433 Location: no. california Joined: October 25, 2002 Contributor Since: April 3, 2008	Aftermarket replacements are very easy to find, and they're very well made.

I did not see any headshells on ebay.., posted on April 29, 2016 at 09:18:37
briggs Audiophile Posts: 1674 Location: Connecticut Joined: April 16, 2002	...that would fit the AR arm, except for some original ones in the $50 and up range. Where did you find them?

I have one of the aftermarket headshells., posted on April 29, 2016 at 10:46:20

ToddM
Audiophile

Posts: 1612
Location: Atlanta, USA
Joined: May 15, 2001
Contributor
Since: June 13, 2005

It was *just* north of $50 with shipping, it fits perfectly, and if I recall correctly, mine weighs exactly the same as the NOS examples (I kinda went on a hoarding spree a few years back). One big difference is that the new ones have a pebbly texture and are black, rather than the polished gray-brown of the originals; another is that the plastic itself seems a bit less brittle, though equally rigid.

Link to sample auction below (no affiliation other than as a satisfied customer, etc).

Aftermarket headshell

RE: AR AX T.T., posted on April 29, 2016 at 12:24:28

hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4306
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006

The AR table had a damping device built into the arm so if dropped it would go down slowly to minimize stylus damage. This was often the cause of the AR arm problems. Record warps could be enough to engage the damping and the stylus would lift out of the groove on the back of the warp. There is a small pin on the side of the arm around the pivots. Pull it out with a needle nose pliers and the damping is disabled and the problem solved. Just be careful when cuing.

A potential second problem could be the user adjustable vertical pivots. If set too tightly they can bind.

I used an AR table many decades ago with this mod and with a low compliance Decca 4RC and high compliance ADC Point 4E and ADC XLM with no problems.

RE: AR arm damping, posted on April 29, 2016 at 17:15:52

M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6599
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
Since: July 4, 2007

AR Inc. was aware of the problems with their damping system for the arm. In fact they furnished instructions to disengage it (remove the pin). I did that with a couple I owned.

The AR XA I wish I still had was the one that I installed a Mayware Formula 4 arm - with the help of a friend who had access to a machine shop. The modification he did on the T-bar and the punch used to enlarge the top plate hole for the arm looked as good as factory finish. Oh well . . .

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

RE: AR arm damping, posted on April 29, 2016 at 20:28:13
hahax@verizon.net Audiophile Posts: 4306 Location: New Jersey Joined: March 22, 2006	Interesting you used a Mayware. Gordon Holt published an article in Stereophile to do the same thing.

RE: AR AX T.T., posted on April 30, 2016 at 07:25:05

john
Reviewer

Posts: 127
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Joined: August 14, 2000

Wonderful tables. I got two of them a few years ago for a total of $20, complete with vintage cartridges; the owner had tried to sell them but had gotten no interest. In just the last few months I had Steve Frosten fix both of them up for me... If you have a couple of hundred bucks to invest in your 'table, guys like Steve Frosten and Marc Morin can do wonders for these things. And you'll have a keeper for life.

RE: Mayware, posted on April 30, 2016 at 11:32:09
M3 lover Audiophile Posts: 6599 Location: SW Mich Joined: May 29, 2005 Contributor Since: July 4, 2007	I chose the Mayware for two reasons. I'd seen several positive reviews (US and Brit mags) and it weighed about the same as the AR arm so I wasn't so concerned with problems in balancing the suspension. "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

RE: AR arm damping, posted on April 30, 2016 at 16:45:23
Bill Way Audiophile Posts: 1884 Location: Toms River NJ Joined: May 28, 2012 Contributor Since: December 14, 2012	I also mounted a Mayware on an xa with some careful drilling and a little epoxy. Looked cool, sounded good. WW "Put on your high heeled sneakers. Baby, we''re goin'' out tonight.

Wow, I like the changes, especiallty the vanilla top plate. How did, posted on May 3, 2016 at 21:33:41
alaskahiatt Audiophile Posts: 7501 Joined: December 9, 2000 Contributor Since: November 1, 2005	you adapt that new headshell to the stock arm?? My is all original right now, except I cleaned the damping paint off the metal top plate.

RE: Wow, I like the changes, especiallty the vanilla top plate. How did, posted on May 4, 2016 at 06:49:55

Mister Pig
Audiophile

Posts: 535
Joined: September 21, 1999

That is a nice looking AR, bet it sounds great.

Marc Morin built my player and put his updates in it. The arm wand is a new piece sourced from Technics. It gets internal dampening material installed, and it is rewired with the KAB arm wire. The vertical pivots get updated with highly polished pins, and the pivots are changed to a sapphire lined V-Block arrangement. I sourced a Yamamoto HS-1A ebony head shell for the table for higher mass so I could run a MC cartridge. My cartridge of choice is a Denon 103M, but I also use an Audio Technica OC 9 III on it.

The top plate is painted in a metallic cream, which the picture doesn't show the finer detail of its color. The flash or ambient light kind of washes out the picture to where it looks more white than cream. There are flecks of copper and gold in the paint that add the shimmer. I personally appreciate how it offsets against the Lace wood finish.

The XA is my least expensive table, but I am amazed at how well it performs. It is my daily driver for casual listening, and if I want to get serious about spinning some vinyl, well I don't feel cheated if I don't swap over to the Serac or 124. And I have a 401 and a SP 10 MK II waiting to have their plinths finished up. What I do need is a decent digital camera so I can take a good pic of the XA.

Regards
Mister Pig

Ah, the tonearm looked so much like the original that I couldn't tell., posted on May 4, 2016 at 08:49:39
alaskahiatt Audiophile Posts: 7501 Joined: December 9, 2000 Contributor Since: November 1, 2005	It's interesting that you and Marc chose to just change the wand and bearings instead of installing a new arm with lots of changes to the suspended T-plate and springs. It looks fantastic, and I still like all of the engineering That AR put into this table that is disguised by the simple, crude, appearance.

RE: Ah, the tonearm looked so much like the original that I couldn't tell., posted on May 4, 2016 at 09:01:47

Mister Pig
Audiophile

Posts: 535
Joined: September 21, 1999

Oh I had no decision in the engineering aspect of improving the AR tone arm. Marc is a retired engineer from the automotive field, and is a smart guy. He decided on the arm improvements, and came up with a way to coax a significant amount of improvement from the stock arm. The arm performs remarkably well. Now it may not accept my most "expensive" cartridge like a ZYX or Transfiguration, but what it does with a high compliance moving coil is outstanding. The Denon 103M sounds just awesome on this table, and I suspect the Denon DL 301 MK II or DL 304 would perform equally well. Heck you can get one of these modified tables for the same price as many entry level tone arms, maybe less. I listen to the table on a daily basis for my rock and pop albums, but do not feel cheated when I throw serious vinyl at it. But given the design of the AR arm, you do have to learn some old school skills to get the cartridge aligned, as shimming it is needed to get proper VTA.

As far as putting a tone arm from another manufacturer on, that becomes a topic with some spirited discussion. To do this you have to punch out the arm well on the T bar to accept the other arm. And now you have a classic table that can never be returned to its original form. Also only a fe arms have the requires spindle to pivot distance, and are light enough mass to work with the suspension. Mine has Linn springs installed and a mass assembly to reach proper spring compression and improve the stability of the suspension in the vertical plane. So it can be done, but it does take some careful engineering and tuning to do so.

For what my AR XA costs, I can't think of any other table that represents such a good value. Its my winner of the bang for the buck completion.

Regards
Mister Pig

Thanks for the details and suggestions. I have never checked my VTA, posted on May 4, 2016 at 11:42:23
alaskahiatt Audiophile Posts: 7501 Joined: December 9, 2000 Contributor Since: November 1, 2005	with my Shure M97xe, as I was hoping it was similar enough to the V15 III that did not require any standoffs according to the chart below.

Vinyl Asylum

AR AX T.T.

76.193.177.32