Denon DP-72l and motor question
73.197.65.6 |
||
| Posted on August 27, 2015 at 09:27:50 | ||
|
Posts: 5878
Joined: April 28, 2010 |
Hey fellas, hope you're all having a great summer. So, my question: is the motor in the aforementioned table a DP-75, or something else? In either case, can you guys tell me what you think of the DP-75 and what the specifics of your experiences with it or the DP-72l might be? Thanks! "Hope is a good thing. Maybe, the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."
|
|
| I checked the service manuals for both the 72L and 75..., posted on August 27, 2015 at 10:21:13 | |
|
Posts: 6828
Location: Glen Burnie, MD USA Joined: December 18, 2003 |
The part numbers are different and the motors look different (from what can be determined from the drawings). I doubt they are the same. I have owned the 62L since it was new and I was considering the 72L at the time I bought it. I was told the 72L was not that big of a difference in performance back in the early 80s. I don't know if that says anything and whether you can draw anything from something so long ago. The 72L does share many of the same parts that the 62L uses. The two tables have a common service manual and use the same motor controller IC. The two tables have almost identical PCBs. The main difference seems to be the plinth and motor. I would think that the D-75 is a better unit. Ed Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
|
| The 62 and 72L motors are different..., posted on August 28, 2015 at 05:17:49 | |
|
Posts: 6828
Location: Glen Burnie, MD USA Joined: December 18, 2003 |
It is the main difference between the two models. Like I posted above, they are very similar and have the same servo controlled tonearm and a similar but deeper plinth. I don't hate the servo controlled tonearm on the 62L and 72L but its implementation is flawed. The servo control of the tonearm sometimes has a habit of either over damping a resonance or making the resonance worse. I have several LPs that I am very familiar with which pointed out the issue when I changed the tonearm. I was under the impression that some LPs had some aspects to the sound that simply were not there. This was revealed when I changed arms and the sound suddenly changed. I wondered which sound was accurate but a comparison of the same LPs to CDs or downloads showed that the Rega was correct and the Denon servo tonearm was messing with resonances. The idea of a servo controlled tonearm is a tricky thing to begin with. I believe that the best implementation of the servo tonearm came from Sony (I think it was called a biotracer tonearm) but I have never lived with one. So please take my comment with the disclaimer. I did live with the servo tonearm on the 62L for several decades and rest assured that it is a good arm but I replaced that arm with a maxxed out OEM Rega RB-300 (Incognito wiring, Michell Technoweight and Riggle VTAF) and the Rega arm was a large improvement over the stock Denon servo arm. Another weakness in the 62L and I assume the 72L as well (both models use the same recorded platter) is that the aluminum platter rings when it is tapped on. The Denon rubber mat helps damp this problem but the problem remains. I tried several things to mitigate the ringing platter, including an Audioquest SorboGel Mat, but the best solution I have found is a Herbies Way Excellent II Mat. Another weakness in the 62L and I assume this is inherited in the 72L is the beautiful wooden plinth. The plinth needs damping or more mass to enhance its performance. I ended up adding sorbothane under the plinth to help the plinth issue. Another issue is common to all turntables with a dustcover. The dustcover tends to pick up and transfer airborne vibrations to the plinth. I ended up treating the inside back of the dustcover with sorbothane. I also placed the 62L on a Gingko Cloud 11 platform. This improved the bass performance on the 62L but I am not sure how the 72L would perform with any changes like the Cloud 11. The 72L is a larger and more massive plinth and might not need something like the Cloud. The main bearing on my 62L also had to be replaced after 30 years of spinning. I ended up getting an Applied Fidelity Ceramic/Jeweled main bearing and this upgrade improved the low level retrieval capabilities of the 62L. I am sure the main bearing is different in the 72L since it is integrated into the motor. Still, the 72L is over 30 years old now and I doubt that the main bearing ina 72L would be in pristine shape (unless you find one that's been sitting in a box). I had to stop all of the upgrades and rig changes for the past 5+ years. I ran straight into a divorce and they tend to change your finances a bit. If I were to continue changes to the 62L I would remove all of the electronics and hardware out of the stock Denon plinth and create a custom plinth from baltic birch plywood for the 62L. I would also create a custom dustcover with solid hardwood side panels (to help avoid dustcover issues). Sorry for rattling on but I lived with the 62L and have a bit of experience dealing with the turntable's weaknesses. The 72L is similar and I hope something I wrote helps. FWIW: I currently own a NOS Thorens TD-126II B (the model without the tonearm). I picked it up from a friend complete in its original box with all of the original packing. It was never removed from the box and everything including the dust tracing thingy was in the box. I have recapped the electronics and its my next project, after I recover from the financial impact from my ex-wife. I'm not sure whether I will continue to use the modified 62L or the TD-126II or ditch everything for a new table. I have the itch to go for a VPI Prime but that might be a little bit down the road. Time will tell. Good luck with the 72L, if you go there. Ed
|
| IIRC...the Denon lit on the DP-62L says the same thing about its main bearing..., posted on August 31, 2015 at 23:57:22 | |
|
Posts: 6828
Location: Glen Burnie, MD USA Joined: December 18, 2003 |
But I believe you are spot on about the 30 years thing. I doubt that they projected over 30 years use into their statement. My main bearing was upgraded by Applied Fidelity (very highly recommended) to a ceramic/jeweled bearing and its a better table after that upgrade. The upgrade was not done because I just wanted an upgrade. There was a worn spot on the thrust pad in the 62L's bearing and the table started making a thump-thump noise at 33RPM. This was a low level noise and eventually made its way onto recorded material from the table...so it had to be repaired. My 62L was very well cared for. Baby-ed would be a best term to describe its care but it made ne difference. When I first opened up the 62L's bearing it was pretty dry and you could see why it started to wear. There was a dimple worn into the thrust pad visible to the eye (even my poor eye sight could see it without any strain). I first tried to re-lube the bearing but it was past anything like that. It had to be replaced. Tubsey (at Applied) was great to work with. He definitely cares about the work done to your bearing and this is not just a place where you get some thrust pad and ball. The materials chosen for my main bearing were tested for a variety of parameters before they were arrived at as a recommended replacement. The Denon main bearing is definitely a quality item but, like I stated above, your statement about 30 years is probably as far as Denon could imagine for a product's use. The DP-80 is pretty close to the best table Denon ever made and, if Tubsey is available, I'm sure he would be interested in its main bearing. The audibility of a worn main bearing is an interesting subject. It is sort of like the boiling frog story. I doubt anyone thinks that their vintage main bearing has any issues. Most main bearings that get 30 years of regular use would need replacement at this point. I don't care what the manufacturer states about a "lifetime bearing". I think that is a bit absurd when you have over 30 years of constant use on any man made mechanical bearing. After that kind of use I am certain it needs attention. The last time I spoke to Tubsey (owns Applied Fidelity) he was pretty busy but it would be worth a try to contact him about a main bearing job to the DP-80. If you want more info about my experience with the bearin job, please contact me via my email. Ed Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
|
| If you ever want to unload that DP-80 keep me in mind.., posted on September 1, 2015 at 08:14:23 | |
|
Posts: 6828
Location: Glen Burnie, MD USA Joined: December 18, 2003 |
I would definitely be interested. Ed Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
|
| Whats up with the TT-101?...nt, posted on September 2, 2015 at 06:13:11 | |
|
Posts: 6828
Location: Glen Burnie, MD USA Joined: December 18, 2003 |
nt
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
|
