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Cantilever not aligned straight

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Posted on August 25, 2015 at 04:51:08
Capt. Z
Audiophile

Posts: 1272
Location: Mountains of NC
Joined: February 13, 2000
 I was just playing around with my vinyl rig again and I was looking at the carts with a magnifying glass.

Turning the cart upside down and looking from back to front I saw that in all my 3 carts, which are mounted on an SME style headshell, the cantilever are pointing more to the right.

On one I tried to push the cantilever more to the middle, but it always returned right back to were it was.

So I am wondering if I need to realign the cart in the turntable, so that the cantilever (not the body) is straight with the protractor.

 

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RE: Cantilever not aligned straight, posted on August 25, 2015 at 07:11:57
Biff
Audiophile

Posts: 7527
Location: Portland, Oregon
Joined: January 27, 2002
 You should always try to align the cantilever and not the body. So I've been told.

I had to do this recently with a new DL-103R, it wasn't straight out of the box (not by much, however).

 

RE: Short answer... Yes, posted on August 25, 2015 at 07:31:30
JBryan
Audiophile

Posts: 148
Location: Baltimore
Joined: September 9, 2002
 How the stylus sits in the grooves is all that matters when setting up the cartridge and arm. Regarding the slight 'tilt' of your cantilever, though fairly rare, occasionally they'll show up that way from the factory so its always wise to inspect them carefully and send it back if necessary. More often, the problem lies with the user - either you've inadvertently bumped it while cleaning or the anti-skate adjustment is way off. Given that you have 3 affected carts, yours is most likely the AS and then compensating for the tilt with your adjustments which may have exacerbated the problem.

Although I've had some success realigning/straightening the stylus on some carts, its a task that requires a very delicate touch with no guarantee that it'll stay straight and its quite easy to snap off some cantilevers. Still, a tilted cantilever significantly compromises the cart's tracking ability and sound as well as it may damage the grooves so you'll want to address the problem sooner than later. Good Luck!

 

RE: Short answer... Yes, posted on August 25, 2015 at 07:38:01
Capt. Z
Audiophile

Posts: 1272
Location: Mountains of NC
Joined: February 13, 2000
 Well, One I just bought used with one hour on. That one is the 'worst' off.

The other one came with an older, lower cost Wega P350 TT and is only very slightly off.

The third was re-tipped about 4 years ago but did not see much use on my Merrill and is so so off.

 

RE: Cantilever not aligned straight, posted on August 25, 2015 at 07:49:03
Mel
Audiophile

Posts: 2993
Location: New York City Area
Joined: February 21, 2001
 As JBryan wrote the short answer is yes. The easiest way to align to the cantilever is to use a mirrored protractor to align the cantilever with the index line on the protractor and with an image of itself. The least expensive mirrored protractor seems to still be the one from Turntable Basics.

 

RE: Cantilever not aligned straight, posted on August 25, 2015 at 09:17:03
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 Do you use antiskating? If all your cantilevers are out of alignment in the same direction, there might be something wrong with your antiskating mechanism -- either too much or too little antiskating.

I have never had a misaligned cantilever -- ever! I've owned more than 25 cartridges.

Good luck,
John Elison

 

RE: Cantilever not aligned straight, posted on August 25, 2015 at 10:40:05
Capt. Z
Audiophile

Posts: 1272
Location: Mountains of NC
Joined: February 13, 2000
 Hi John;

Yes I use Anti Skating, carefully aligned on my Merrill. The cart that I use on this TT was re-tipped by SS with a Ruby Cantilever. I am sure Peter did a great job and put it in straight. That re-tipped cart has less then 200 hours on and is only so-so off.

Only 2 weeks ago I bought a Wega P250 with a AT91. That one is has unknown hours and is pointing almost straight down the middle. Antis-Skate is set with a Scala. Have not checked for correctness of the scale - yet.

Than the 3rd cart was also bought 3 weeks ago. It was only used one hour by the previous owner. I have only used it in the Wega for less the 20 hours. That cantilever is pointing the most to the right.

 

RE: Cantilever not aligned straight, posted on August 25, 2015 at 10:43:08
Capt. Z
Audiophile

Posts: 1272
Location: Mountains of NC
Joined: February 13, 2000

This is the mirrored protractor that I find around here.

 

RE: Cantilever not aligned straight, posted on August 25, 2015 at 15:14:57
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 Well, I think your problem might stem from buying used cartridges. I always buy brand new cartridges. I have never bought a used cartridge and I probably never will. All my new cartridges have had perfectly aligned cantilevers except for one, which had a cracked cantilever. I returned it for a refund, which is one of the advantages of buying new cartridges.

Good luck,
John Elison

 

RE: Cantilever not aligned straight, posted on August 25, 2015 at 17:40:13
painter27
Audiophile

Posts: 5057
Location: wi.
Joined: January 7, 2003
 On the SS retipped cart, I would talk to SS.

People can guess all they want, but you'll get real answer!

That's what I'd do.

 

RE: Cantilever not aligned straight, posted on August 25, 2015 at 20:32:39
Mel
Audiophile

Posts: 2993
Location: New York City Area
Joined: February 21, 2001
 For about the same money I think this alignment tool is a better device.

 

RE: Cantilever not aligned straight, posted on August 25, 2015 at 20:59:46
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 Perhaps they are better now, but I bought a Turntable Basics protractor a number of years ago and I didn't like it. The grid lines on mine are too thick and irregular to achieve an accurate alignment. I keep it in my audio rack underneath my SL-1200 because it makes an excellent mirror for looking behind my components to check their electrical connections. ;-)

My favorite type of alignment protractor is an arc protractor. They seem to make alignment less difficult by allowing you to first set overhang accurately using the arc. Then it's easier to set offset using either of the alignment grids. You can also align the cantilever if you like. Since I usually prefer to print my own protractors, I've found that Conrad Hoffman's Custom Arc Template Generator for Phono Cartridge Alignment is the best freeware program for printing arc protractors.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

RE: Cantilever not aligned straight, posted on August 26, 2015 at 03:02:54
WntrMute2
Audiophile

Posts: 782
Location: Detroit
Joined: September 16, 2002
 Maybe you could send one cart to Sound Smith and ask him to straighten the cantilever. Then keep track of that one and see if it becomes missaligned over a few plays/hours. If it does, there is certainly something wrong with your arm or its setup.

 

RE: Cantilever not aligned straight, posted on August 26, 2015 at 05:20:06
Mel
Audiophile

Posts: 2993
Location: New York City Area
Joined: February 21, 2001
 We've been down this road before. I much prefer the "point it at the arm" type of protractor. They are cheap, often mirrored, and work with any arm. The mirrored arc protractors are expensive, work with only one arm and are, in my opinion, fussy. Also, if the arm is not installed in PRECISELY the specified place, the custom arc protractor is perpetually wrong.

As for the TB one, it looks like it may be a new model and, in any event, has been favorably received by many inmates here as a search will reveal.

 

RE: Cantilever not aligned straight, posted on August 26, 2015 at 06:24:07
louie3
 Is this not a result of incorrect anti-skate setting on the tonearm?
(a much more common situation than most realize)

When I see the tip of the stylus/cantilever pointing one way or t'other (looking at the front of the cartridge) I adjust the anti-skate a little to correct till it is straight again.

Seems to work for me, although these are cartridges whose cantilevers were straight when play began.

 

RE: Cantilever not aligned straight, posted on August 26, 2015 at 10:31:51
Capt. Z
Audiophile

Posts: 1272
Location: Mountains of NC
Joined: February 13, 2000
 Well, just ordered one.

 

RE: Cantilever not aligned straight, posted on August 28, 2015 at 17:21:03
Dual
Audiophile

Posts: 20
Location: Maine, USA
Joined: May 6, 2012
 I remember being in touch with SS about a 2nd-hand cart I bought which had one of their cantilevers on a tilt. Peter said to just skew the cart body so the cantilever aligned properly.

 

RE: Cantilever not aligned straight, posted on August 29, 2015 at 04:06:16
rindolini
Audiophile

Posts: 584
Location: Munich, Bavaria
Joined: August 9, 2007
 C_Z: Which carts exactly? Because in some cases it's not so difficult to straighten a slightly sideways pointing cantilever - for example on AT's dual/V magnet design needles one typically just needs to rotate the rubber damper ring into a better position...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

RE: Cantilever not aligned straight, posted on August 29, 2015 at 05:03:31
Capt. Z
Audiophile

Posts: 1272
Location: Mountains of NC
Joined: February 13, 2000
 Hallo Mafred;

Habe ein Nagaoka MP110, AT91 und Shelter 501 re-tipped bei SS

From most off center to less off center.

 

RE: Cantilever not aligned straight, posted on August 29, 2015 at 10:04:27
rindolini
Audiophile

Posts: 584
Location: Munich, Bavaria
Joined: August 9, 2007
 C_Z: Alrighty then, for the Nagaoka, make yourself a little tool you can slip between the cantilever and the outer tube and which you can prod a part of the rubber suspension with. Worth a try, and has worked for me to realign an Ortofon 320 cantilever. You could make such a thingy for example out of a drinking straw.

Well, and on the AT91 the cantilever assmbly isn't fixed by screw, but rather by rivet, so it's more difficult to rotate the damper ring. Anyway, what you need to do there is to independently rotate the damper ring, until you find a position at which the cantilever points straight ahead again. I do that holding the needle in one hand, so I can use one fingernail to block the magnet holder from rotating with the damper ring - and to rotate that ring I use the flank of the tip of a wooden toothpick, rubbing that along the outside of the ring.

I usually do that without opening the so-called (by AT) "compliance adjustment screw", even on the needles that sport it, 'cause while that makes rotating the damper ring more difficult, one avoids the problem of restoring the original tension between the front and the back part of the cantilever assembly - with the latter basically just being a metal shell around the "flexible filament" that connects the back and the front part of the cantilever assembly.

Can't comment on the Shelter, though - as I'm not familiar with the exact needle design of that. But I wouldn't suggest you to work on an MC anyway (or at least definitely not for a start), because these are pretty fragile.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

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