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Yup, no question now: if you want the best Mahler 7th on Lp, Levine is it

67.161.182.178

Posted on July 25, 2015 at 19:39:07


With one caveat: it's --- digital. Soundsteam digital. From...1980 or so. GASP!

Heard em all now; even Scherchen's (huge disappointment).

Levine got to conduct Solti's Chicago orchestra, famous for its brass section (accurate down to 10 decimal places).

Unlike Solti's harsh, insensitive and relentless 70's London recording, Levine reigns in the brass, yet they're still fabulously responsive.

In the first mov't, with so many of Mahler's luminous, lyrical lines framed with delicate fanfares, no other brass section inspires confidence (or, in otherwords, becomes invisible, so to speak), like the Chicago. Mahler's ideas are supported well here.

Levine also builds chords from the bottom up, much like Furtwangler, thus the mid-mov't "moonlight" music really glows because all the open fifths/octaves given to the bass are encouraged to "ring" and/or stand out, and RCA's engineers capture them well. To me, this nocturnal interlude (before the first mov't wraps up) is the heart of the symphony; it's one of the most beautiful passages in all of Mahler.

In the "bells and whistles" dept, the bass drum is also deep and resonant, adding much atmosphere throughout the symphony. Non-existent in other recordings.

IMHO, Levine "gets" the symphony like no other, at least in the Lp era.

Of the competition: Scherchen is decidedly not his caffeinated, infinitely imaginative self, and his "LSO on the down-low" is having a bad day as well. In this one instance, the ensemble lives up to wanna-be critics' complaints.

Klemperer's interpretation is infamous and well-documented. I was hoping that the slow tempi would fascinate in their own right, (think Sinopoli's Elgar 2nd), but it sadly wasn't the case.

Typical DGG: poor Kubelik isn't well-served in the bass dept, but--other than his completely insensitive handling of the moonlight music, Solti-style--I'd still recommend **any** of Kubelik's Mahler based upon the "freshness" of his performances.

Abbado? I don't get Abaddo's Mahler. Never did. Ever.

Bernstein? I like his DGG recording better than the original, famous Columbia. Much more whimsy, and DGG got good recording results in NY. You'll have to pay a pretty penny though. Regarding the Columbia, the playing is a bit rough, as is the bass-lite recording. I'm not hearing the "magic" that other's hear in this early performance either.

Which brings us to Haitink: His earliest Philips recording is a bit surface and bass-lite. His later Philips recording (digital) comes closest to Levine's in sheer beauty, but still not as much "angst" and/or "mystery."

----------------

Do give Levine's a try, if you like this piece. For me, the 1st mov't makes or breaks the symphony, followed by the 3rd mov't. The 2nd, 4th and 5th movements seem "unbreakable" to me.

RCA gets good recording results in Chicago, but we're not talking Decca quality. But still better than Columbia, or RCA in Philly with Ormandy.

 

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The best I have heard was CSO/Haitink Live..., posted on July 25, 2015 at 22:15:04
kuma
Audiophile

Posts: 10274
Location: IN
Joined: July 8, 2001
Back in April this year.

The frail conductor who just turned 86, got through the grueling score with no intermission giving us a hell of a memorable performance.
I thoroughly enjoyed his skilful command, expression and finesse. Respect and affection he gets out of the musicians were very obvious.

I still have a bit of trouble with outer movements but two Nightmusik and Scherzo were the best I have heard filled with varying moods, colours and wit.
Enthusiastic audience applauded after every movement. The maestro turned around just after the 3rd movement saying 'you don't have to applaud every movement, you know. Keep your energy till the end!'

There was a slightly risky moment that I felt that the orchestra started to stray a bit in the final movement but Haitink held everything together with the max impact.

One thing I can say is that 'Need more cowbells!" :D

Incidentally, CSO performed the US premier of the 7th on 15 April 1921 with Frederick Stock conducting.

Philips year recording usually as they are not potent as his later performances.

 

Levine rarely disappoints, posted on July 25, 2015 at 23:35:42
kavakidd
Audiophile

Posts: 20316
Location: Upstate NY
Joined: April 15, 2004
to bad his health issues have been a major hindrance
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain

 

RE: Yup, no question now: if you want the best Mahler 7th on Lp, Levine is it, posted on July 26, 2015 at 02:11:34
Dave Billinge
Audiophile

Posts: 1008
Location: Hampshire
Joined: June 7, 2005
Tennstedt on EMI? The important conductor missing in your considerations.

Dave

 

This is a US pressing, right?, posted on July 26, 2015 at 05:39:00
vinyl1
Audiophile

Posts: 3948
Joined: October 3, 2001
I have always liked the Levine Mahler, but the German pressings are usually significantly better than the US. I would be interested to hear if that is the case with these later digital recordings.

 

Can't believe I forgot Tennstedt! His Mahler 8th is my #1 choice, but I don't remember being taken by his 7th,, posted on July 26, 2015 at 07:51:20
back in CD era anyway.

 

RE: The best I have heard was CSO/Haitink Live..., posted on July 26, 2015 at 08:02:32
Interesting that you like the central movements best. I've always been endlessly fascinated by the 1st. Fantastically imaginative!

Heard MTT perform it when they were recording for SACD. Enjoyed but--once again--he wasn't sensitive to the moonlight music, IMHO.

 

That's a stock pic, but gatefold cover says "plating," "matrixing," and "pressing" Europadisc, posted on July 26, 2015 at 08:19:03



The earlier pressing is definitely "made in Germany" and can be had by looking for the edition with the outer slipcase, pictured above.

Of all Levine's Mahler, his 7th IMHO hits the high note. The only thing I miss in Levine's other Mahler symphonies is the rustic and--on occasion--grotesque charm that conductors like Klemperer bring out.

My current Mahler shrine:

1st: Kubelik on Audite
2nd: Bernstein on DGG
3rd: Adler on Harmonia Mundi (mono)
4th: Walter on Columbia (mono)
5th: Barbirolli on EMI
6th: Kubelik on Dgg
7th: Levine on RCA
8th: Tennstedt on EMI
9th: Barbirolli on EMI
10: Sanderling on Eurodisc
DLVDE: Klemperer on EMI

Of all my humble rec's, Adler's 3rd is the one about which I'm most enthusiastic. I'd search high and low for the Harmonia Mundi, (or Adler's own earlier label). The mono sound is warm and wide-ranging, the players play their hearts out, and their collective sense of discovery is infectious. Flubs are at a minimum.

 

RE: Yup, no question now: if you want the best Mahler 7th on Lp, Levine is it, posted on July 26, 2015 at 08:31:43
learsfool
Audiophile

Posts: 1001
Joined: August 4, 2008
jdaniel, you did not mention Abbado's Mahler 7, recorded with that exact same Solti/CSO. Yes, it is on DG, but it is not digital, and the performance is outstanding. Give that one a listen before you declare Levine's best.

 

RE: Yup, no question now: if you want the best Mahler 7th on Lp, Levine is it, posted on July 26, 2015 at 09:18:29
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
Have you listened to the Tilson-Thomas?

 

Heard MTT's 9th 2 years ago with CSO..., posted on July 26, 2015 at 09:42:54
kuma
Audiophile

Posts: 10274
Location: IN
Joined: July 8, 2001
It was wonderful. He'll be back next season but unfortunately no Mahler.

I'll look for a Levin's 7th on vinyl. I usually peg him rather *generic* from that era ( I've his Brahms with CSO from the 70s ) but never know till I give it a listen.

 

I know Abaddo's DGG 7th well. I just don't "get" Abaddo's Mahler. Nothing about it seems to stand out to me., posted on July 26, 2015 at 10:12:29
I was hoping his later Lucerne performances would be sublime, considering Abaddo knew they'd be his swan songs, but still, his interpretations did nothing for me.

Maybe some day they will, and I'll listen again, since you're enthusiastic about them.

Take my subject line with a grain of salt though. : )

 

Heard him do it live twice, (the second time for his SACD recording)., posted on July 26, 2015 at 10:21:00
Tony Duggan likes MTT's RCA 7th but I don't find it "mystical" enough, IMHO. Same with most of his Mahler cycle on SACD. MTT is good with extrovert, or celebratory music but he never moves me when it comes to the "profound" stuff.

Duggan doesn't even mention Levine's Mahler 7th, so everyone's tastes are different!

 

Generic conductors who occasionally hit a home run...., posted on July 26, 2015 at 10:48:29
Regarding Levine's generic quality, I agree; (he's the Chailly of the 80's), but every once and awhile, he hits a home run.

Haitink is considered *the* "generic" conductor, but IMHO he can surprise: I cherish *some* of his Philips Debussy, his Tchaikovsky Manfred and 5th.

Dorati IMHO never plumbs the depths and isn't big on whimsy or eroticism, (think his famous Merc Firebird), but his Prokofiev "Love for Three Oranges" and Scythian Suite are knockouts.

Maazel can be pretty boring (think his entire Telarc output) but his early Ravel opera on DGG are magical. No one's come close IMHO.

Mehta's pretty generic, but his Prokofiev 5th is white hot, as is his Roman Festivals. Mahler 2nd with the VPO is pretty intense throughout.

Ormandy seemed to wake up when EMI took over: knockout performance of Bartok's Mandarin.

Solti could turn a lovely, unforced phrase every once and awhile too: his Tannhauser is beautiful.


 

Great survey, posted on July 26, 2015 at 11:55:01
TGR
Audiophile

Posts: 3002
Location: No. California
Joined: March 22, 2004
I love the 7th - I purchased the Solti when it first was issued -I was a freshman in college- and played it with a bunch of rockheads listening - straight through, we all loved it. I have heard it live twice - with de Waart and MTT. The de Waart performance didn't go that well, but the MTT was brilliant - I thought that he captured the humor of the 5th movement exceedingly well - in fact I was laughing out loud.

I haven't heard the Levine - he is not a conductor that I have collected much. His Mahler was making quite a splash at one point, although if I recall correctly he didn't get a chance to complete the cycle.

BTW, I agree with your assessment of Abbado's Mahler, of which I have heard just the 2nd and 3rd. I just don't get it, despite the huge reputation that he has (had) with this music. For another point of view, Bruckner9 loves his Mahler - so maybe there is something there that I don't hear.

 

Agreed....add one more generic conductor...., posted on July 26, 2015 at 11:59:01
kuma
Audiophile

Posts: 10274
Location: IN
Joined: July 8, 2001
Kurt Masur.

Ormandy can surprise but Solti I am keep trying but so far no home run for me.
He's not generic but just so heavy handed and same same....I think I like him as a person than as a conductor.

 

Thanks. During the first MTT live Mahler 7th, the poor posthorn soloist gaffed and cracked literally 6 or 7 , posted on July 26, 2015 at 12:33:30
times. I felt SO bad for the guy. Maybe he'd just gotten a text message with ultra-bad news right before the concert. Hope not.

I wonder what happened behind the curtain afterwards....

 

S@$% happens..., posted on July 26, 2015 at 12:40:05
TGR
Audiophile

Posts: 3002
Location: No. California
Joined: March 22, 2004
I heard the Chicago Symphony with Solti conducting do the 5th in War Memorial - and the great Bud Herseth cracked during the opening phrase....the one blemish to what otherwise seemed like a perfect performance.

 

Neumann/LGO (on the Eterna label), posted on July 26, 2015 at 12:41:12
Posts: 26483
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since:
February 6, 2012
A couple of unusual notes, but. . . he was a great conductor who STILL doesn't get the respect he deserves.

 

RE: Yup, no question now: if you want the best Mahler 7th on Lp, Levine is it, posted on July 26, 2015 at 20:03:38
Mel
Audiophile

Posts: 2993
Location: New York City Area
Joined: February 21, 2001
I'm partial to the first, and legendary, Bernstein NYPO recording and recall the sound as better than your description. I'll listen again to verify. We may have pressings that are years apart.

 

RE: Yup, no question now: if you want the best Mahler 7th on Lp, Levine is it, posted on July 26, 2015 at 20:36:42
Thanks for reading. What blew the Bernstein performance for me was the NYPO's uncharacteristically tentative playing in the delicate portions of the 1st mov't. The spotlighting doesn't help, IMHO.

Nothing is allowed to blend. Or glow. Much of Mahler's 7th has the astringency built in; doubling down with an astringent recording and it's just too much.

I try to never let flubs or imprecise execution get in the way of a special performance though.

 

RE: I know Abaddo's DGG 7th well. I just don't "get" Abaddo's Mahler. Nothing about it seems to stand out to me., posted on July 26, 2015 at 22:35:09
learsfool
Audiophile

Posts: 1001
Joined: August 4, 2008
Hi jdaniel - this is what has always been very puzzling to me. The vast majority of audiophiles do not seem to particularly care for Abbado, yet professional musicians absolutely love him to death, for just about everything he ever conducted. We always find his performances to be pure music-making - nothing is for show, it is all about the music - pure heart, and as faithful to the composer's intentions as he can be.

 

Not sure if there's a connection between audiophila and tepid feelings towards Abaddo...., posted on July 27, 2015 at 07:33:24
Personally, I prefer my mono Adler Mahler 3rd to anyone's from any time.

 

RE: Yup, no question now: if you want the best Mahler 7th on Lp, Levine is it, posted on July 29, 2015 at 15:28:10
fstein
Audiophile

Posts: 2996
Location: fstein
Joined: May 18, 2006
Does the fact that it is in early digital put you off?

 

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