Gotta love the free market! Project comes out with $399 record vac

67.161.182.178

Posted on May 25, 2015 at 20:08:52

My first VPI vac--which I loved--was $450 back in the day. Now it's $650. Fair enough but I'm going for the Project.

In any case, if you don't have one, swallow the bitter pill: I've been washing records in the sink with windex. I works, but you have to play the lp at 45 rpm and let the needle carve out the gunk.

PITA.

Fremer alert

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RE: Gotta love the free market! Project comes out with $399 record vac

HW

14:12:27 05/28/15

2

Pro-Ject is a serious company and announced it

TGR

18:22:42 05/28/15

RE: Pro-Ject is a serious company and announced it

Lakeshore Larry

07:59:37 05/30/15

...

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RE: Gotta love the free market! Project comes out with $399 record vac

HW

14:12:27 05/28/15

2

Pro-Ject is a serious company and announced it

TGR

18:22:42 05/28/15

RE: Pro-Ject is a serious company and announced it

Lakeshore Larry

07:59:37 05/30/15

John - need your email address

TGR

20:12:25 05/26/15

So what happened to your VPI?

TGR

08:07:37 05/26/15

2

Ha ha. Do you remember the great record (and TT purge) of 2010?

jdaniel@jps.net

08:59:05 05/26/15

RCM

TGR

09:46:02 05/26/15

I wonder if it is quiet

TGR

08:05:30 05/26/15

RE: I wonder if it is quiet

peteSF

12:29:01 05/26/15

They just built a cheaper mouse trap.....

jeromelang

20:23:33 05/25/15

14

Maybe I'm a geezer, but the old fashioned "pump" worked for me. I survived the audiophile bug. In any case,

jdaniel@jps.net

20:46:14 05/25/15

13

The static will always be there even if the brushes only go one round

jeromelang

21:50:08 05/25/15

12

RE: The static will always be there even if the brushes only go one round

bjh

10:53:18 05/26/15

4

Yes, wet washing

jeromelang

18:21:42 05/26/15

3

RE: Yes, wet washing

HW

14:19:07 05/28/15

2

Why, HW, you're brushing?

jeromelang

18:32:41 05/28/15

Manners, please. nt

David Smith

06:19:18 05/30/15

My routine too

M3 lover

09:25:33 05/26/15

The only way to know if your vpi.....

jeromelang

09:42:41 05/26/15

Well, my gray hair is still there, even if I brush twice. : )

jdaniel@jps.net

07:12:39 05/26/15

You are a lucky one!

Dman

07:43:11 05/26/15

Zerostat, or one of the variants out there...

Dman

05:36:20 05/26/15

2

RE: Zerostat, or one of the variants out there...

elix

15:30:24 05/29/15

Zerostat is a MUST-HAVE For Me, Too

Charlie F.

14:00:07 05/26/15

They just built a cheaper mouse trap....., posted on May 25, 2015 at 20:23:33
jeromelang Audiophile Posts: 2303 Joined: February 2, 2001	When the more enterprising companies are moving on to ultrasonic cleaners Cheaper doesn't mean you have to stick with the "old" Regardless the merits of ultrasonic vs vacuum, but when are people going to learn that the brushes underneath the vacuum tubing to prevent air from escaping is only ever going to cause static that will affect sound quality....?

Maybe I'm a geezer, but the old fashioned "pump" worked for me. I survived the audiophile bug. In any case, , posted on May 25, 2015 at 20:46:14

jdaniel@jps.net

"old schooler's" --with our oh so charming common sense--would point out that one doesn't need to vacuum to the point at which static goes off the charts.

When I had a VPI cleaner, I let it rotate twice, and only twice.

The static will always be there even if the brushes only go one round, posted on May 25, 2015 at 21:50:08
jeromelang Audiophile Posts: 2303 Joined: February 2, 2001	Even if the vinyl surface us still wet while the brushes go over it, there will still be static. The only way is to blow dry or spin dry. You owe it to yourself to hear how good your record can sound using contactless drying

Zerostat, or one of the variants out there... , posted on May 26, 2015 at 05:36:20
Dman Audiophile Posts: 7211 Location: Kansas Joined: January 28, 2001	Always works for me, and I live in the mid-west (which is always dry with exception of the past week! LOL)... Dman Analog Junkie

Well, my gray hair is still there, even if I brush twice. : ), posted on May 26, 2015 at 07:12:39
jdaniel@jps.net	I just don't care anymore, but very happy with how the vac lifts gunk quickly and easily.

You are a lucky one!, posted on May 26, 2015 at 07:43:11
Dman Audiophile Posts: 7211 Location: Kansas Joined: January 28, 2001	My hair started turning gray before I hit 40. Now it is starting to fall out! Still using my VPI 16.5 and a Zerostat (on records, not my hair!), and have no desire for anything else... Dman Analog Junkie

I wonder if it is quiet, posted on May 26, 2015 at 08:05:30

TGR
Audiophile

Posts: 3002
Location: No. California
Joined: March 22, 2004

I cleaned a helluva lot of records on my VPI 16.5 before I just couldn't live with the noise any longer. I wore noise-cancelling headphones (actually hunting headphones) while using it, which was not only uncomfortable and boring (since I couldn't hear music while I cleaned records) but also fatiguing - the noise still affects your body. I was very happy to retire it in favor of a Clearaudio Double Matrix Pro, which obviously is in a different class than the VPI 16.5. Nonetheless, I have felt there was room for a competitor to the venerable 16.5, which must be the best selling RCM ever.

So what happened to your VPI?, posted on May 26, 2015 at 08:07:37
TGR Audiophile Posts: 3002 Location: No. California Joined: March 22, 2004	Did it end up in the same place as the Mahler 2nd? :-)

Ha ha. Do you remember the great record (and TT purge) of 2010?, posted on May 26, 2015 at 08:59:05
jdaniel@jps.net	Was having a difficult time with tracking, (cart? arm? who knows?), and went to CD/SACD. Found a pristine mass market Technics similar to the one I had in College with--gasp--an MM cart (which are supposed to sound terrible compared to MC) and I've been happily married ever since. Love the sound. Bought back most of my collection, minus the "collectables" and now time for a new vac.

My routine too, posted on May 26, 2015 at 09:25:33
M3 lover Audiophile Posts: 6604 Location: SW Mich Joined: May 29, 2005 Contributor Since: July 4, 2007	I've used a 16.5 for years and my routine is to shut off the pump after two rotations. The tube does not lift off for nearly another full rotation. This has worked well for me and I don't have any problem with static. And I live in arid So. Cal. where it is officially classified as a desert. "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

The only way to know if your vpi....., posted on May 26, 2015 at 09:42:41

jeromelang
Audiophile

Posts: 2303
Joined: February 2, 2001

....create static or not, even if it is just one singular rotation of the brushes going over vinyl surfaces is to listen to a record washed without any brushes, and dried by either blowing or dried by spinning.

Let's be clear about one thing:

The type of static created by brushes going over vinyl surfaces that I'm talking about - is not the type that causes continuous crackling noise, but rather, what I'm talking about is the type that causes soundstage to shrink, imaging becoming forward, and sense of lethargic burdening down of dynamics.

RCM, posted on May 26, 2015 at 09:46:02
TGR Audiophile Posts: 3002 Location: No. California Joined: March 22, 2004	My 16.5 is gathering dust. Still works - yours if you want to pick it up in Burlingame. Tom

RE: The static will always be there even if the brushes only go one round, posted on May 26, 2015 at 10:53:18
bjh Audiophile Posts: 18614 Location: Ontario Joined: November 22, 2003	Wet washing with RCM is one of the most effective ways to remove static .... not speaking hypothetically, experience, and lots of it!.

RE: I wonder if it is quiet, posted on May 26, 2015 at 12:29:01
peteSF	I think it is as ugly as it is noisy, but it works quite well. I've had mine for 11 years now and have easily cleaned a couple thousand records, but I'm not sure I want to drop another grand to get something less noisy (better). My neighbor in the flat upstairs knows when I'm cleaning that's for sure. P

Zerostat is a MUST-HAVE For Me, Too, posted on May 26, 2015 at 14:00:07
Charlie F. Audiophile Posts: 984 Joined: March 31, 2000	I love my VPI, but I'd enjoy it far less if I didn't have the Zerostat. I should note that I sometimes zap an LP after a 2-revolution brushing with the AudioQuest. Static can be a bear.

Yes, wet washing, posted on May 26, 2015 at 18:21:42
jeromelang Audiophile Posts: 2303 Joined: February 2, 2001	Is effective against neutralizing static that dulls the sound of your record. But avoid drying methods that require brushes to go over the surfaces of the vinyl. Go either blow dry or spin dry.

John - need your email address, posted on May 26, 2015 at 20:12:25
TGR Audiophile Posts: 3002 Location: No. California Joined: March 22, 2004	The one in the email you sent me didn't work - I tried to reply to yours. Tom

RE: Gotta love the free market! Project comes out with $399 record vac, posted on May 28, 2015 at 14:12:27

HW
Manufacturer

Posts: 515
Joined: March 16, 2002

No one buys more vacuum motors than VPI does and we get them at the lowest possible price same goes for the gear motors we use. They are first class long lasting products that can be replaced at any time as they are made here.

Since those are the two most expensive items in the machine it is not possible to ship it here, have a distributor mark it up, have a dealer mark it up, and sell it for $399 using parts of the same quality. I have seen one company after another come out with low priced machines that eventually creep up to our price or beyond.

No insult to Pro-ject I just don't see it being possible.

RE: Yes, wet washing, posted on May 28, 2015 at 14:19:07

HW
Manufacturer

Posts: 515
Joined: March 16, 2002

After 40 years cleaning records I have a pretty good idea how to do it so I can say with certainty, spin dry and blow dry does not work. Try blow drying your vette after washing it spotlessly clean, water marks, water marks all over the place. The same happens on vinyl.

I would stop wasting my time posting and save up for a more revealing cartridge so you can hear the difference. Really, all this posturing with so little knowledge in depth.

HW

Pro-Ject is a serious company and announced it, posted on May 28, 2015 at 18:22:42
TGR Audiophile Posts: 3002 Location: No. California Joined: March 22, 2004	So it is possible. And anyone who buys it at $399 is not harmed if the price later goes up. Any consumer needs to make his/her own decision as to the relevant advantages of each unit, of course, and perhaps the 16.5 will prove to be worth the additional $$ - but the free market revolves around choices, both at the consumer level and the company level.

Why, HW, you're brushing?, posted on May 28, 2015 at 18:32:41

jeromelang
Audiophile

Posts: 2303
Joined: February 2, 2001

We assume when you said a more revealing cartridge, you're talking about one that reveals more of the surface contaminants on vinyl records after a cleaning, which is what's being discussed here, isn't it?

So in your eminent opinion, can you tell us what cartridge allows you to hear more of the ticks and pops on vinyl surfaces after a cleaning?

If one thinks about it, 40 years of experience is useless if it is not of relevant to the topics on hand.

RE: Zerostat, or one of the variants out there... , posted on May 29, 2015 at 15:30:24
elix Audiophile Posts: 852 Location: Chicago Joined: January 14, 2010	Yeah, if you don't have a zerostat, you might as well just throw your records on the ground and stomp on then, regardless of how you've cleaned them. Obviously exaggerating a bit for laughs, but... I got mine used on ebay for ~$40, but I think it would be worth every penny at $100.

Manners, please. nt, posted on May 30, 2015 at 06:19:18
David Smith

RE: Pro-Ject is a serious company and announced it, posted on May 30, 2015 at 07:59:37

Lakeshore Larry
Audiophile

Posts: 215
Joined: July 30, 2014

I'm starting to notice a trend here: The 16.5 is a very old design and hasn't been updated since it came out. Pro-ject sees the opportunity to produce a newer design at a lower cost. That's what happens when companies rest on their laurels to long. Phoenix Engineering did the same thing when they came out with their Falcon and Eagle power supplies last year at 1/3 to 1/2 the price of the SDS with more capabilities. Stand in one place too long and you're going to get passed.

At least VPI has ventured into new territories with their tables. For awhile, it appeared they were just recycling the same components arranged on different platforms.

Vinyl Asylum

Gotta love the free market! Project comes out with $399 record vac

67.161.182.178