Article in WIRED about Hot Stampers

Somehow the content of my post failed to load. My exclamation, "What a yutz", was in reference to the owner of Hot Stampers who says in the referenced text that he uses a vintage solid state integrated amplifier in his demo system, because tube equipment causes "distortions" that sound "warm and pleasant" (or words to that effect), but he, purist (and ay-hole) that he must be, insists on absolute accuracy in his amplification chain, so customers for his grossly over-priced and over-hyped LPs will know what they are getting. Sheesh!

RE: Article in WIRED about Hot Stampers, posted on March 4, 2015 at 18:27:38

dirtyvinyl

I've found the site entertaining and like to compare my own findings with a particular record.

If someone has the dough to get the $800.00 copy of Blood, Sweat and Tears, power to them. I'm envious someone has the system/cash reserves for such extravagance. Saves time bin searching and having 5 copies of Aja or Exile on Main Street.

Finding some of those same albums Mr.Port describes as "hot stamper" and even a few "white hot" stampers isn't easy, but I find them. Difference being I pay $5-10 bucks and take a chance when I bring it home. His "scouts" get around the So. Cal record stores and the proprietor of my favorite store has reported sightings over the years.

RE: Article in WIRED about Hot Stampers, posted on March 4, 2015 at 18:33:24
Picklesnapper Audiophile Posts: 492 Location: East Coast U.S. Joined: January 16, 2010	I was foolish enough to buy one several years ago. Never again. What a chump I was. Yes, it sounds very good, but the price I paid was a sucker price. For that money I can find my own, thank you very much.

From some of those descriptions..., posted on March 4, 2015 at 19:06:52
dirtyvinyl	you're buying a $400 record that STILL has ticks/stitches! Was your purchase at least noise free? Good music will allow you to ignore some defects, but for that amount of jack, I would EXPECT a tick free record. I guess I'm not his demographic.

RE: Article in WIRED about Hot Stampers, posted on March 4, 2015 at 19:10:55
ecl876 Audiophile Posts: 3416 Location: Bend, Oregon Joined: January 14, 2007 Contributor Since: January 28, 2012	Great article and it's nice to see him in the flesh. It gives me slight indigestion to know that he makes in the six figures for what he does. I know many say "more power to him" but it still disgusts me. To those who can afford it, I guess it's better than buying heroin.

"...20 to 30 preferred customers who spend as much as $100,000 a year..." ...., posted on March 4, 2015 at 19:29:43

reelsmith.
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Generally, folks who have money have brains... that's how they got the money.

Yet, some folks don't use their brains when they spend their money. I guess they are so loaded they don't need to.

Honestly, if I was filthy stinkin' rich, I'd still look for records at the flea market and estate sales. Half the fun is in the hunt.

Dean.

reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

RE: Article in WIRED about Hot Stampers, posted on March 4, 2015 at 19:40:15

teenage diplomat
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Ive never bought a "hot stamper" and having read the article I can say honestly that I never will. Why? Because he uses a supposedly "accurate" mid 1970s solid state massmarket receiver to power his reference system. Amps of that era, particularly the runnof the mill types sounded terrible. Bleached harmonics threadbare timbre and shrill treble. That is what he is hearing and calling great. I'll pass.

RE: Hot Stampers, posted on March 4, 2015 at 19:40:46

unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010

You can tell a lot on your own. On my favorite LPs of which I often buy multiple copies, I always look at the end wax: lots of info there: mastering engineer, pressing plant, even the distance to the label tells a story. For some extremely dynamic pieces you can actually see the more highly modulated grooves.

Eyes are getting older now and I need to carry a magnifying glass these days, and the thing that irks me is that some engineer's work appear only on one side rather two sides.

Also pays to know the history of the disc (covers and labels). IMHE earliest pressings generally sound the best: more fine detail and better dynamics. Never can tell though, so it pays to keep careful attention. Remember the years following the first gas shortage was a vinyl disaster in the US.

The issue now becomes storing and sorting your collection. I have about 50K of LP's and I can hardly reach the vast majority

The "hunt." +1, posted on March 4, 2015 at 21:11:51
alaskahiatt Audiophile Posts: 7508 Joined: December 9, 2000 Contributor Since: November 1, 2005	Nt

I have been using the visible groove method for a long time., posted on March 4, 2015 at 21:37:23

alaskahiatt
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Since: November 1, 2005

I have noticed that many European presings seem to show more groove definition than some US pressings(Mercury, RCA Living Stereo, Flying Fish, etc. not included). Good examples would be EMI, Phillips, Telefunken, Decca, L'Oiseau Lyre, etc.

On a side note, cactuscowboy for this asylum seems to be the most organized owner of a very large collection. His movable ladder like those in vintage libraries is fantastic for top shelf access. I guess the secret is to have the proper space to,begin with.

RE: Article in WIRED about Hot Stampers, posted on March 5, 2015 at 02:46:23

Munkie_NL
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Posts: 4860
Location: Netherlands
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I agree with the guy about new reissues. I recently saw an item on Dutch TV about the renaissance of vinyl. They went into a mastering room with the camera. I saw DMM mastering and a huge monitor with a wave form. Thus: digital sound on the hard disk. Pressing a 16/44 WAV file on a vinyl disc does not make it sound better.

About the hot stampers. IMHO the really good recording and mastering quality was, and still is, to be found in classical music. Roy Thomas Baker mastered a Queen album way too loud because he wanted tape saturation and compression. Not a recipe for high end sound. I have a Metallica album on CD that hurts the ears. The Loudness Wars are nothing new.

"The torture never stops"

Greetings Freek.

Relying on some else's sensory perceptions isn't, posted on March 5, 2015 at 06:26:19

gonzo
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Posts: 2512
Location: new england
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a guarantee that what they hear, you will hear. Some people love a certain bottle of wine, a certain dish at a restaurant, other's don't. We have different capacities to sense and interpret those sensory inputs. When he and his other buddies sit around listening, they are just giving their opinion. My guess is that that when you dissect the sound you can sometimes forget the emotional content of the experience. N

+2, posted on March 5, 2015 at 06:47:32
GregK Audiophile Posts: 465 Location: NE Ohio Joined: September 30, 1999	...finding something really nice on your own is SO worth it

I've always thought Tom Port was a fraud but....., posted on March 5, 2015 at 07:20:00
volunteer Audiophile Posts: 5666 Location: Louisville, KY Joined: January 7, 2012	he has created a niche business that apparently pleases his core customer base. The free market at its' best.....or worst. -Wendell

I almost gag when I hear "hot stamper"...(nt), posted on March 5, 2015 at 07:46:09
Pappas3278 Audiophile Posts: 206 Location: NYC Joined: March 12, 2007	NT

RE: Article in WIRED about Hot Stampers, posted on March 5, 2015 at 08:45:47
Bry Manufacturer Posts: 5610 Location: S. Florida Joined: July 21, 2005	Yeah, for that money I think I'd rather buy 50 copies of something I like and have a shootout myself.

I don't have a problem with the prices (though I'd never pay them)., posted on March 5, 2015 at 10:04:58

olddude55

Mr. Port is really charging for his time. Anybody who can listen to that Blood Sweat & Tears album or Alice Cooper Goes To Hell ten or twelve times in a row deserves to be paid. Someone would have to pay me before I'd even play them once.
The real issue to consider is this: if you gathered ten copies of a record that sold millions of copies, is that a large enough sample? I don't think so, and I think it points up the futility of trying to figure out which pressing is best.

There was a time when bargains could be had, posted on March 5, 2015 at 10:06:32

vinyl phanatic
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on Tom's website, especially on classical titles, but not anymore. I gave up looking there some time ago. On the other hand, I have sold Tom a number of records on eBay (mostly blueback Londons), and I have to say that while he is very particular about things, he has always been amicable about it, and a pleasure to deal with.

The whole "Hot Stamper" thing is certainly more than a little "out there", but if he has sustained this business model for this many years and his customers are happy, who am I to criticize it? Chacun a son gout.

RE: VA better records, posted on March 5, 2015 at 10:28:49

escapist
Audiophile

Posts: 108
Joined: October 24, 2013

I share a lot with this guy and Better Records Hot Stamper process --

He buys used pop/rock; I buy used. He shops thrifts; I shop thrifts. He looks at the condition of the vinyl; he cleans the records (he cleans them twice). Me - yes and yes.

He listens critically and carefully and judges the record worthiness. Don't all of us do that?

I part ways with Better Records pricing. Can't criticise them for selling auditioned, graded records though.

RE: VA better records, posted on March 5, 2015 at 11:09:28

Condorsat
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Posts: 1909
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James ... I'll be listening to Pink Floyd "The Final Cut" ... British pressing next. Please use the upstairs RCM so as not to disturb my listening session.

**********************

I cook my own food, clean my own house, wash my own car ... etc.

But if I had deep pockets & sky high disposable income ... I would hire a full time personal 4 star chef and a butler/maid to cater to my every need.

Why not pay somebody to find the best records for you? ... just saying.

The hunt +3, posted on March 5, 2015 at 11:36:30
vinyl survivor Audiophile Posts: 1471 Location: Southeastern US Joined: November 28, 2007	I miss the days when I had free time to go to yard sales, thrift stores, etc. in the early 90's when everyone was dumping their vinyl.

RE: he certainly gets one 'mother' of a finders fee..., posted on March 5, 2015 at 11:41:09

user510

...for those sought-after records.

Rambling on.... (why, I don't know, 'just feel like typing)

For those vinyl aficionados who have more money than time, I can certainly imagine the need for someone like Tom Port. Imagine this;.... Give the man a title to search for,.....then stipulate that it be 1st master and 1st stamper. (yea right) If he doesn't have it, he'll find it by sending his 'hounds' out on the search. They might know just where to make that capture, given enough money.

(...and don't we often wonder where all the good titles at Good-Will go to?) Are there really armies of professional vinyl hunters combing the bins and then reporting back to Tom?

Regardless of hot-stamper status or not. I suspect that "hot-stampers" are more myth than fact. (I could be wrong) No, the record company execs probably did not order any hot stampers. (or did they...;^) Do I tend to contradict myself. Of course I do. No I don't.

I have sampled the occasional radio-station demo record that indeed did play louder at the same volume settings on my amp when compared to the regular issue.

Really, the variation is from one lacquer-master to the next. And the engineers who created them. Robert Ludwig versus Tom Dowd versus George Peckham, etc. Was the margin control automated or did the engineer intervene manually during the lathing? (more space between groove walls allows for louder deeper bass notes)

Yep, we can study the matrix coding and know which master/mother/stamper was used. But we don't know which record it was from a given stamper. But, generally, standard practices at a given pressing plant should have tightened up quality control enough to eliminate pressing records from tired stampers. Mostly. We hope.

For myself, life-long budget constraints eliminate even the remotest passing fancy of dealing with someone like Tom Port. Besides, and like others in this thread, I really enjoy the hunt as much as I enjoy listening to what I turned up out in the wild.

I could go on. I could go on about the mindset of those who, throughout their lives, hire others to do the dirty work while they themselves sit at the controls of larger issues and pull the strings that make the rest of us hustle for our respective livings. Would it not be these folks that order records from people like Tom Port? But I probably shouldn't go on.

-Steve

College dropouts......, posted on March 5, 2015 at 12:06:41
richardl Audiophile Posts: 3555 Joined: September 5, 2002	Given who was raising them and where they went to school all their lives,that is a bit disingenious,like saying Einstein was a postal clerk. Look up William not Bill Gates and you can get an idea of what I mean.

Was very interesting until...., posted on March 5, 2015 at 12:54:59
gkirkos Audiophile Posts: 201 Location: Seattle Joined: February 6, 2015	...he said all new quality re-issues are crap. This is the Mapleshade technique: I've heard everything else that people love and it's crap! It's interesting that Jonathan Weiss of all people call him out on it. This is the guy that went to RMAF and said everything sounded, again, like crap.

mid-70s "hi-fi", posted on March 5, 2015 at 13:13:38

Lew
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That comment quoted in the article is what I was referring to when I posted "What a Yutz!", below. Somehow the text of my post never made it. I have now better explained myself below. A friend of mine once wrote a book called "Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics" (which is a quote from the British Prime Minister, Disraeli). I would put his comment on solid state electronics (especially mid-70s vintage ss) vs tube electronics in the second category.

RE: VA better records, posted on March 5, 2015 at 13:19:30
Lew Audiophile Posts: 10912 Location: Bethesda, Maryland Joined: December 11, 2000	There are guys who do that. One of them is a member of and contributor to this Asylum. It's just that most of them do not charge hundreds or thousands of dollars per LP for the service.

RE: VA better records, posted on March 5, 2015 at 13:37:29

Condorsat
Audiophile

Posts: 1909
Location: NE Ohio
Joined: January 13, 2003

Yes ... I've done that myself back in the dollar bin days. But if I had the mega coin of some ... I would have paid someone to do it.

QUOTE*********

The Collectors

Although there are currently 117 testimonials posted on the Better Records website, the success of this bold enterprise hinges on 20 to 30 preferred customers who spend as much as $100,000 a year on hot stampers.

UnQUOTE*******

Port is just filling an ultra niche market segment.

"A fool and his (her) money are soon parted" is IMO the answer to it. nt, posted on March 5, 2015 at 14:07:57
Nuit	.

Fremer on hot stampers, posted on March 5, 2015 at 14:38:16

ecl876
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This was posted by Fremer on his website in 2013. Things must have mellowed between them because Port now regularly advertises on Analog Planet.

"Listen, that guy absolutely hates me. I couldn't care less. I have never said anything other than that if he's willing to go through hundreds of copies of a record, pick out the best and sell it for a lot of money, more power to him. And I've heard some of his choices are they are very good. It's a worthwhile service.

However, there is no such thing as a "hot stamper". That is pure marketing B.S. I have spoken to press men at the major pressing plants throughout the world and they just laugh when you bring up "hot stamper"s.

Port basically believes that originals are always better. My experience is that they often are but not always and in fact, more often than not reissues sound different but not necessarily better or worse and it's partly a matter of how your system has been set up. If it's to make murky old RCAs or bright Mercurys sound optimal, well then the reissues won't sound as good.

In any case my only bone to pick with Port was his original accusation that my opinions on the subject are suspect because I work for magazines that take advertising so I have a "conflict of interest". This from a guy whose "interest" is in selling used records for hundreds of dollars above "book value." Like he has no "conflict of interest" there!

The bottom line is, I don't think he has a "conflict of interest" in his advocacy or his opinions nor do I. He can write all the crap about me he wants, I couldn't care less. It doesn't stop me from saying the used records he sells sound very good because I've heard them and they do."

I literally laughed out loud the first time I viewed his site, posted on March 5, 2015 at 15:31:49

padreken
Audiophile

Posts: 8518
Location: San Diego
Joined: November 28, 2000

The arrogant dismissal of all reissues tells me everything I need to go about the guy-I've got plenty of reissues (MFSL, DCC, Friday Music, etc) that smoke the originals, some that sound only marginally better and/or different and a few that aren't as good. As Fremer noted, there's no hard and fast rule.

Anyone armed with a smartphone (for the flashlight app), a magnifying glass and same basic knowledge of how to read deadwax and other pressing related knowledge can do the same thing-if he's selling a Buffalo Springfield "hot stamper", for example, you can be certain it's not pressed at Columbia (the Monarch pressings are WAY better). He's a record concierge for the lazy and well-heeled.

RE: Fremer on hot stampers, posted on March 5, 2015 at 15:53:45

Condorsat
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Posts: 1909
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What confused me is that in the video below (about 8:30 mark) Fremer describes what is essentially a Hot Stamper

at other times however ... he has stated that there is no such thing.

RMAF13: Deciphering

I once sold him a record for $300 , posted on March 6, 2015 at 05:58:36
Biff Audiophile Posts: 7527 Location: Portland, Oregon Joined: January 27, 2002	And I paid $4 for it. He's okay in my book.

RE: I don't have a problem with the prices (though I'd never pay them)., posted on March 7, 2015 at 00:44:55

Stitch
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Posts: 736
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"
Mr. Port is really charging for his time. Anybody who can listen to that Blood Sweat & Tears album or Alice Cooper Goes To Hell ten or twelve times in a row deserves to be paid. Someone would have to pay me before I'd even play them once.
The real issue to consider is this: if you gathered ten copies of a record that sold millions of copies, is that a large enough sample? I don't think so, and I think it points up the futility of trying to figure out which pressing is best."

Excellent answer

" to trust is good - not to trust is better! "

Kind Regards

RE: I don't have a problem with the prices (though I'd never pay them)., posted on March 7, 2015 at 07:35:17

collinslaw@fuse.net
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Posts: 524
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i lucked into a collection being sold where all 33.3 records were $10 regardless of pedegree. I bought a Miles Kind of Blue, Sketches of Spain and a Benny Carter. They are very good, clean sounding records and I am glad to have them in the collection. However, I would never have paid the kind of money that they were marked for. They are probably worth $50 each however and I might have considered paying that for such iconic records.
Tom Collins

Ron Penndorf was essentially doing the same thing 30 years ago..., posted on March 8, 2015 at 14:07:38

musetap
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though he never called them "hot stampers". He called them "audiophile" records and graded each record based on SQ, condition and musical content. His clientele were pretty sophisticated and usually wealthy, trusted Ron's opinion, taste and grading and paid Ron's "crazy" prices without batting an eye, as they knew what to expect and time was money and their time was better spent dealing with Ron.

Ron eventually branched out from his classical expertise into jazz and classic rock and blues LPs, keeping his same strict standards.

He knew his stuff, talked a good game and REALLY knew and catered to his special clientele.

In retrospect, his prices those many years ago seem almost reasonable by today's standards!

Port is but following a variation on a theme.

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

+1 [nt], posted on March 9, 2015 at 16:18:25
Mike Porper Audiophile Posts: 1414 Location: Chicago Joined: December 28, 2009	h

Vinyl Asylum

Article in WIRED about Hot Stampers

108.18.101.187