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Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight

96.255.150.2
Posted on March 1, 2015 at 16:59:54
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 I have owned this tonearm for a few years, but only now have I had the opportunity to use it. Immediately, I find that the counter-weight supplied by the seller is way too heavy for any cartridge/headshell I own or have ever seen. The tonearm cannot be balanced to neutrality with this cwt. So, I need a smaller, lighter weight one. A little internet research reveals that there were some lighter ones made and also reproduced. Does anyone have a source in the US? There's one for sale in Japan, but I don't want to wait for shipping. Jim Howard, maybe? Any other ideas about how to improvise while I wait for the proper part would be appreciated.
Thanks.

 

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RE: Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight, posted on March 1, 2015 at 18:38:19
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 Do you have any other counterweights from other tonearms that might be temporarily adaptable with modification and/or improvisation? That would be my best guess for improvising.

 

Asylum member indagroove will machine one to your specs at a fair price...., posted on March 1, 2015 at 19:12:12
viridian
 Colby is a great artisan and an avid vinyl hobbyist. Highly recommended.

 

RE: Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight, posted on March 1, 2015 at 21:55:39
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17294
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 That tonearm was supplied with a 19.8 gram headshell (the FR-S/3) and could use the FR-S/4 at 14.6 grams or the FR-S/5 at 18 grams.

With the supplied FR-S/3 the effective mass of the arm was/is 30 grams.

BTW The "lighter counterweight" advertised with the arm is listed as a W-170 (170g)

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

a few questions, posted on March 1, 2015 at 21:58:08
Penguin
Audiophile

Posts: 7116
Location: Delaware
Joined: August 5, 2001
 What do you want it made out of? Can you provide precise measurements of the shaft? Is there a pressure pad under the set screw? What is the gross weight you want it to be? Do you want it flatter or longer and skinnier?

dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.

quote by Kurt Vonnegut

 

RE: Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight, posted on March 2, 2015 at 05:16:24
middleground
 A properly sized rock and duct tape should work!

Or maybe a bunch of large washers carefully weighed!

Or maybe lead shot on top of the headshell?

How long can getting something as small as a counter weight from Japan take?

Hardly ISIL induced anxiety stuff I would say.

 

RE: Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight, posted on March 2, 2015 at 06:56:41
Mel
Audiophile

Posts: 2993
Location: New York City Area
Joined: February 21, 2001
 Depending on what material the counterweight is made of you can drill out some of that material and lighten its weight.

 

RE: Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight, posted on March 2, 2015 at 08:11:08
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 Great minds think alike. That idea popped into my head last night too. I am going to try the cwt.'s from my Triplanar; I've got a whole bag of them and they are all lower in mass than the one I got with my FR64S.

 

RE: Asylum member indagroove will machine one to your specs at a fair price...., posted on March 2, 2015 at 08:13:39
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 Colby did some excellent work for me several years ago. (I assume we are talking about the same guy, lives on the West Coast, Oregon I think.) A few months ago, I sent him an email on another matter, and he never responded. I thus concluded he was out of the audiophile machining business. I will try again, thanks.

The full name popped into my head: Do you refer to Colby Lamb?

 

RE: Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight, posted on March 2, 2015 at 08:18:48
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 The FR64S's one sees for sale on eBay all seem to sport the same size cwt that I got with mine. On eBay also, I saw two reproduction FR64S cwt's for sale. One weighs over 400g and looks like mine in terms of size. The other weighs a little over 200g and looks to be OK for my needs in terms of mass. I have not found the W170. Maybe that would be the best solution. I want to run a 12g headshell with an MC cartridge that is rather low in mass and high in compliance, compared to typical MC cartridges. This is an Ortofon MC2000. Thanks for your response.

 

RE: a few questions, posted on March 2, 2015 at 08:23:15
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 Answers to your questions, in order:
Alu or brass or stainless all are ok with me.
Yes, I can provide the diameter of the shaft.
There must be some sort of pad under the set screw, because the OEM cwt moves smoothly.
Gross weight to be determined. Need to weigh the OEM cwt and estimate accordingly.
Flatter is better; one wants the center of mass to get as close to the pivot as possible.

Since we are neighbors of a sort, I wonder based on your questions whether you know a local machinist who can make this part. Thanks.

 

RE: Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight, posted on March 2, 2015 at 08:26:09
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 Thought about having a machinist just cut the existing cwt in half or in 1/3 to 2/3 ratio to generate two new cwt.'s of differing mass. But I'd rather not damage an original part from a valuable tonearm.

 

RE: Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight, posted on March 2, 2015 at 08:26:50
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 Cheer up!

 

I can make it :), posted on March 2, 2015 at 08:36:07
Penguin
Audiophile

Posts: 7116
Location: Delaware
Joined: August 5, 2001
 Will figure out a trade somewhere :).

I have 1.5" 303 ss, 2" bronze or 2" alu. on hand. Is there like a plastic insert tube inside under the set screw? Since it is a gimbal arm, the CW does not have to be slung low like on a uni-pivot. Promise it will look much better than the rocks and duct tape design....

Here is a picture of the Schroeder clone i made.





dee
;-D



True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.

quote by Kurt Vonnegut

 

RE: I can make it :), posted on March 2, 2015 at 08:42:17
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 I can bring the OEM weight to your house, and if you would make one or two of lesser mass, I would be a happy camper. But I will not trade you the FR64S in return for this work (humor intended). At this point, we should go to private email.

 

Yes, that's him. If you have trouble contacting him......., posted on March 2, 2015 at 08:47:26
viridian
 e-mail me off board. I live very close and we correspond and see each other once in a while. As far as I know he is still machining parts and put in a special shop to do the work. I imagine he has to pay off the machines some way.

 

You have email… Thanks., posted on March 2, 2015 at 09:13:58
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 nt

 

RE: a few questions, posted on March 2, 2015 at 09:16:38
middleground
 So it was silence of the Lamb?

 

RE: Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight, posted on March 2, 2015 at 09:24:48
middleground
 On that I fully agree with you. If the one in Japan is an original part I would go for it despite the wait, all other factors being ok.

Such a nice arm is worth having all the original parts IMHO.

 

RE: Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight, posted on March 2, 2015 at 10:20:01
Plato65
Audiophile

Posts: 1111
Location: Barcelona
Joined: June 5, 2003
 I have both counterweights. Do you need the measurements?

 

That took me a while to get (nt), posted on March 2, 2015 at 10:27:11
Penguin
Audiophile

Posts: 7116
Location: Delaware
Joined: August 5, 2001

True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.

quote by Kurt Vonnegut

 

Good one..., posted on March 2, 2015 at 10:55:17
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 "Silence of the Colby" doesn't have a ring to it.

 

RE: Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight, posted on March 2, 2015 at 10:57:53
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 If you could weigh the smaller one and also supply its length, that should be sufficient. I am interested to know whether the one Tre' identified, which weighs 170g, is the only alternative, or whether there is a third cwt with an intermediate mass between the 170 and the big one I seem to own.

 

Lew, your e-mail did not come through, posted on March 2, 2015 at 13:52:29
viridian
 did you do the little ciper at the bottom of the Asylum e-mail page to send the message?

All the best,
Marty Kohn
Portland, OR

 

RE: Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight, posted on March 2, 2015 at 14:15:50
Plato65
Audiophile

Posts: 1111
Location: Barcelona
Joined: June 5, 2003
 This is 17mm long and weighs roughly 220g. This looks to be the W-210, the heavy weight for FR64 rather than the light weight W-170 for FR64s. I've been able to balance every cartridge I've tried in a Yamamoto HS-3 (~8g) head shell, which I can't do with the normal weight. The weight ends up close to the pivot, though. The W-170 would give you more latitude.

 

RE: Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight, posted on March 2, 2015 at 14:37:48
Penguin
Audiophile

Posts: 7116
Location: Delaware
Joined: August 5, 2001
 Yhe arm effective weight is 35g (FR64 S) the Ortofon MC 2000 has a compliance of 20 x 10^-6cm/Dyne the MK II version has 13 x 10^-6cm/Dyne. Does not appear the be a good match you are around 6 Hz. the arm seems to be better with cartridges with compliance below 10 x 10^-6cm/Dyne. but i have seen stranger things in life...try it :)


dee
;-D

True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.

quote by Kurt Vonnegut

 

RE: Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight, posted on March 2, 2015 at 16:03:25
kff
Audiophile

Posts: 1033
Location: SE PA
Joined: October 19, 2006
 Interesting issue.

Very high mass arm, ideal for those Koetsu cartridges and others of extremely low compliance wanting to be adjusted to use a medium to high compliance cartridge.

I would get a new counterweight made for the arm. When I had that arm, I was considering it but decided to let the arm go instead as I was not going to be using very low compliance cartridges most of the time.

Any qualified machine shop can make one, probably costly, but it is nice to see a member step up and offer to help you out.

I will say that Ortofon MC-30 Super I borrowed sounded very nice in the FR-64s and that combo has a resonance frequency of about 6Hz.

Using a lightweight headshell and lighter counterweight you can change the effective mass of the arm by a number of grams. Those FR headshells weigh a ton.

 

RE: Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight, posted on March 2, 2015 at 20:02:14
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 Was going to try it with an MC2000, with a light headshell and light cwt, as you say, but perhaps the MC2000 is just too compliant, even with those two precautions, and I do own a Koetsu Urushi that has been under-employed for the last 3-4 years. I have always heard that the Koetsu/FR64S or FR66S match is a very good one.

 

An inmate takes a few days off and...(nt), posted on March 5, 2015 at 16:40:51
InDaGroove
Manufacturer

Posts: 285
Location: Portland,Or.
Joined: June 3, 2003

 

I is all cool, posted on March 5, 2015 at 19:39:27
Penguin
Audiophile

Posts: 7116
Location: Delaware
Joined: August 5, 2001
 I still believe Lew will need your help on other stuff.


This one i think we can make into a fun exchange locally.


dee
;-D

True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.

quote by Kurt Vonnegut

 

Follow up on Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight, posted on March 6, 2015 at 12:28:58
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 I mounted an 18 gram Orsonic 101A headshell on the FR64S, and to my amazement the existing heavy counter-wt seems like it will work fine to counter-balance the tonearm, especially after I mount the cartridge. In fact, the heavy cwt is right up close to the pivot, which is desirable. So, for the moment when I am going to use a relatively heavy headshell (albeit a headshell that is lighter than a typical FR headshell) and a heavy LOMC, this original cwt is just fine. The problem may come when I want to use a lighter headshell and a more compliant cartridge.

I have not weighed this cwt, but it is 25mm long (about one inch) and it's the one you commonly will see mounted on the FR64S in photos of ones that are for sale.

To anyone who uses FR64S, do you use the spring balance to achieve VTF or do you move the cwt back or forth to achieve VTF?

 

RE: Follow up on Fidelity Research FR64S counter-weight, posted on April 19, 2015 at 15:53:10
Plato65
Audiophile

Posts: 1111
Location: Barcelona
Joined: June 5, 2003
 This thread is now over a month old, but I thought I'd post for future reference this website that I stumbled on and that lists the weights of the original and two optional counterweights.

In Google translation:
- Standard (body included): correspondence with 443g cartridge + shell to 16 ~ 35g
- Optional W-170: correspondence with 174g cartridge + shell to 0 ~ 20g
- Optional W-210: 219g (standard and weight of the middle of the W-170 and it is estimated)

 

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