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Any inexpensive stage for playing 78's?

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Posted on January 29, 2015 at 12:15:08
bjh
Audiophile

Posts: 18614
Location: Ontario
Joined: November 22, 2003
 Wondering if anyone knows of an inexpensive phono stage for [occasionally] playing 78's (stylus on the way)?

For that matter how about playback via a normal (RIAA) stage? ... just how bad a mismatch might that be?


 

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RE: Any inexpensive stage for playing 78's?, posted on January 29, 2015 at 13:16:50
coffee-phil
Audiophile

Posts: 1444
Location: Shingle Springs CA
Joined: January 7, 2010
 Hi bjh,

I have linked a somewhat modest priced phono stage which has switchable EQ.

If you use RIAA EQ with 78 they will sound less bright. On noisy 78s you may actually prefer the RIAA EQ as it wiil attenuate some of the noise. Keep in mind that for much of the 78 era EQ was considered proprietary and varied from label to label and from time to time. If you want to be a purest, you will need a phono stage with select-able bass turn and treble cut, then research the record you are going to play.

More important than EQ will be the ability to sum to mono. Consider that a must.

Phil

 

Thanks! nt, posted on January 29, 2015 at 16:08:01
bjh
Audiophile

Posts: 18614
Location: Ontario
Joined: November 22, 2003
 .


 

Not inexpensive, posted on January 29, 2015 at 16:08:43
Waxxy
Audiophile

Posts: 2648
Joined: July 19, 2011
Contributor
  Since: November 22, 2011
 But not outrageous either, the Monophonic phono stage offers variable EQ curves.





Slee also has a unit which offers that feature.








 

Esoteric Sound Re-Equalizer, posted on January 30, 2015 at 04:56:08
sjg
Audiophile

Posts: 738
Location: Boston
Joined: April 8, 2004
 Costs $370 and goes between phono stage and rest of system.

Great add in if you don't want to buy a new phono stage.

 

I have one., posted on January 30, 2015 at 06:03:09
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 While I recognize and admire its capabilities, I have pretty much stopped using it. I've compared the sound of my 78s via the re-equalizer and straight from the (Aesthetix Rhea) phonostage to the linestage and don't like re-equalizer as well, sonically. There's an insertion loss and what sounds to me like added distortion. I've tried various cables to fix this but haven't found the "right" ones yet. Definitely IMHO/YMMV territory though.

 

RE: Any inexpensive stage for playing 78's?, posted on January 30, 2015 at 07:51:36
dcharvonia
Audiophile

Posts: 74
Location: Virginia
Joined: September 15, 2008
 I've tried several options for 78 playback, including the Re-Equalizer. That unit is convenient, but adds phase distortion and noise. The best inexpensive option is to build the JE-Labs mono preamp (see link). I get terrific results with this unit, fed by a series-wired Stanton 500 w/2.7 mil stylus. Just bump up load resistor to 100K to compensate for the rewiring. I find this gives better results than simple L-R summing. Turntable is a new Stanton ST-150 (using just one channel.)
Surface noise on clean records is almost non-existent; dynamics and frequency response are amazing!

 

RE-equalizer question, posted on January 30, 2015 at 08:45:19
sjg
Audiophile

Posts: 738
Location: Boston
Joined: April 8, 2004
 Hi, I have not noted added noise or distortion in my setup but I am curious about the noise and distortion you and David Pogue have found.

Why/how would it add phase distortion unless it were not designed and or built correctly?

I have not compared it to an all in one variable eq phono stage which would be preferable if it was as good or better than my current combination -- McCormack Micro Phono Drive Rev. A w/powersupply + Reequalizer. Perhaps going forward I will find an all in one unit I like.

One thing I find more important for vintage record playback is ease of use and -- I love the layout of the controls of the Re-equalizer and find it to be a great tool to play a wide variety of pre RIAA records.

The manual is available for free and is an excellent guide for anyone interested in pre riaa records whether you use the Re-equalizer or not.

Here is the mention in stereophile

 

RE: RE-equalizer question, posted on January 30, 2015 at 10:09:50
dcharvonia
Audiophile

Posts: 74
Location: Virginia
Joined: September 15, 2008
 I would respectfully submit that Art Dudley is not (by his own admission) an experienced hand at 78RPM playback. Now I'm not an EE - although I have scratch-built several excellent vacuum-tube preamps - but it seems to me that any circuit that "undoes" previously-applied equalization and then applies its own is going to add undesirable artifacts to the sound. Don't get me wrong - I lived happily with the re-equalizer for several years - but the improvements gained by moving up to the JE are substantial.

 

Thanks for the post. Could you explain the use of the 100K resistor again., posted on January 30, 2015 at 11:49:51
alaskahiatt
Audiophile

Posts: 7508
Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
  Since: November 1, 2005
 nt

 

RE: Thanks for the post. Could you explain the use of the 100K resistor again., posted on January 30, 2015 at 12:09:11
dcharvonia
Audiophile

Posts: 74
Location: Virginia
Joined: September 15, 2008
 Sure - on the schematic there is a 47K resistor from the phono input to ground. Just replace it with a 100K resistor to compensate for the cartridge modification (assuming you are going to wire the coils in series as suggested.)

 

RE: Any inexpensive stage for playing 78's?, posted on January 30, 2015 at 13:23:55
alan m. kafton
Manufacturer

Posts: 5285
Joined: April 7, 2000
 This unit looks identical to the Rek-O-Kut Audiophile Archival unit (rebadged?) from Esoteric Sound, whose offerings were posted elsewhere in the thread. However, phonopreamps.com's price is lower.

 

RE: RE-equalizer question, posted on January 30, 2015 at 13:29:58
alan m. kafton
Manufacturer

Posts: 5285
Joined: April 7, 2000
 Is the JE unit you built an actual kit? Or did you roll your own with the schematic as shown on their page?

 

RE: RE-equalizer question, posted on January 30, 2015 at 13:38:03
dcharvonia
Audiophile

Posts: 74
Location: Virginia
Joined: September 15, 2008
 You'll have to roll your own following the schematic. Luckily it's a relatively simple circuit (and you only need to build one channel!) If I can help out in any way, don't hesitate to ask. Somewhere I found a schematic for flat equalization (not included on JE website) which is essential for acoustic and many European electric 78s.

 

Thanks again, but I was wondering why the increase in resistance?, posted on January 30, 2015 at 14:38:28
alaskahiatt
Audiophile

Posts: 7508
Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
  Since: November 1, 2005
 Is it due to the change in series resistance from parallel? I don't have enough electrical background to fully understand. Thanks.

 

Thanks everyone, lots of great info!, posted on January 31, 2015 at 06:59:41
bjh
Audiophile

Posts: 18614
Location: Ontario
Joined: November 22, 2003
 I think I'll just go slow and see how it goes through my [RIAA] phono stage.

I have instructions for strapped the table internally for mono but I'll investigate doing same a the headshell if possible ... in time ;)


 

RE: Thanks again, but I was wondering why the increase in resistance?, posted on January 31, 2015 at 07:11:25
dcharvonia
Audiophile

Posts: 74
Location: Virginia
Joined: September 15, 2008
 You're doubling the output impedance of the cartridge by connecting the 2 coils in series, so you double the impedance of the load by adding another 47K resistor in series (thus 100K more or less). Just like matching the impedance of your speaker to the output transformer (only in reverse!) I think that is the correct explanation - someone please correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

Thanks very much!, posted on January 31, 2015 at 11:10:24
alaskahiatt
Audiophile

Posts: 7508
Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
  Since: November 1, 2005
 nt

 

RE: Not inexpensive, posted on February 5, 2015 at 07:25:23
jweiss
Manufacturer

Posts: 485
Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: November 1, 2000
 We have a collector of rare Blues 78's (Robert Johnson, etc) who uses the Monophonic. Just about every label in his collection requires a different EQ. He is able to establish the right EQ with the Monophonic because it is infinitely adjustable. Without that ability, you won't be able to play 78's correctly, as they deviate from RIAA significantly.

Jonathan Weiss
OMA

 

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