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A holy grail found -- and scratch repair

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Posted on December 16, 2014 at 16:33:35
rbolaw
 RCA LSC 2632 features Beethoven's Op. 95 and 135 string quartets played by the Juilliard Quartet in their salad days. One of ten LPs the Juilliard recorded for RCA between 1957 and 1963. Some of these have been reissued on CD by Testament (see link) but not this one.
Well, I found a very clean copy for a dollar. A few light scuffs, most inaudible. But one skip caused by a light stylus scratch.
As others have said, scratches cannot be eliminated. But I believe vinyl shards and foreign matter can build up in and around the scratch when it occurs or after, and be ground in by the stylus. This damage may not be entirely curable either, but I've found a firm, repeated wet scrubbing in the affected area can remove the skip and allow me to listen to the d@mn thing without getting up out of my arm chair.
You run the risk of increasing the audible damage at least slightly by spreading the foreign matter from the affected spot and grinding it in further. Once the skip is removed, I do nothing further. But I can now listen to this one in comfort.


 

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RE: A holy grail found -- and scratch repair, posted on December 16, 2014 at 22:51:08
Garg0yle
Audiophile

Posts: 859
Joined: December 1, 2014
 Good stuff.
△This message will self destruct in 10 seconds△

 

RE: A holy grail found -- and scratch repair, posted on December 17, 2014 at 10:23:29
Richard P
Audiophile

Posts: 476
Location: Upstate NY
Joined: October 8, 1999
 I use a round toothpick and a 10X jeweler's loupe to pick offending debris from grooves - works like a champ without the fear of something becoming dislodged during the scrubbing process and potentially causing further damage.

 

Thanks!, posted on December 17, 2014 at 11:26:15
rbolaw
 Good idea. Actually, I also use a 10x jeweler's loupe. Thing is, sometimes I just can't find exactly where the problem is no matter what I do. The record looks fine, the scuffs are very slight, but it skips.

 

RE: A holy grail found -- and scratch repair, posted on December 17, 2014 at 14:31:46
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 I collect the Juilliard String Quartet, but I don't have that one. Lucky you!

Dave

 

RE: A holy grail found -- and scratch repair, posted on December 17, 2014 at 15:17:56
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Hello!

I found this guy's video to be very interesting. I haven't yet tried this, but it does seem to be a way to save a valuable LP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYZHkDhad54

Anyone think this is bunk or good? I think it's a cool process.

 

RE: A holy grail found -- and scratch repair, posted on December 17, 2014 at 17:21:21
rbolaw
 Well, I'm in the same boat. Sony should issue a Juilliard Quartet big CD box of all their Columbia recordings from the Robert Mann era. It's amazing how many of them are unavailable on CD. There were only 10 RCA LPs, but Testament in their infinite wisdom seemed not to have reissued all of that material -- only about two-thirds of it.

This is only one of many of their LPs I've been looking for. You can often find a later red label copy of this one for about $10-$15 on ebay, but sq is a crap shoot for those. Good original "shaded dog" stereo copies go for an average of $40.

 

RE: A holy grail found -- and scratch repair, posted on December 18, 2014 at 08:39:09
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 I live in the Maryland suburbs of DC. There must have been a lot of classical collectors around here. For a long time I was buying Living Stereo shaded dogs, MLP's and 6-Eyes for a $1 in NM condition. Those days seem to have faded, but I still find Command Classics and Everest. As for mono, the selection is still fantastic. You can't beat the dynamics and detail on the better monos. You never know. This one might show up, or I might break down and pay ebay prices. I am sure it would be a great listen!

Dave

 

RE: A holy grail found -- and scratch repair, posted on December 18, 2014 at 09:02:00
rbolaw
 Yes, still lots of classical vinyl out there, but it's often been cherry picked. Collectors have even wised up to the good monos. I'm in the NYC area, where LPs are usually overpriced.
I'll be in the DC suburbs in a few days. Any brick and mortar shops you can recommend? Restaurants?
Regards,
Roy

 

RE: A holy grail found -- and scratch repair, posted on December 18, 2014 at 16:55:11
briggs
Audiophile

Posts: 1674
Location: Connecticut
Joined: April 16, 2002
 I have this record -- bought new when issued. It is indeed a grail recording. Another revered Julliard selection is their recordings of Mozart's "Haydn" Quartets, on Epic.

I agree with your comments about scratch repair, although this particular record has not needed it.

 

RE: A holy grail found -- and scratch repair, posted on December 18, 2014 at 22:45:23
learsfool
Audiophile

Posts: 1001
Joined: August 4, 2008
 Hi rbolaw - that is indeed a very nice recording, I have a copy of that myself found very inexpensively - I didn't know it was a rare one! I am also very interested in your scratch removal method. My wife has a jeweller's loupe, so I will definitely be checking that out. Having never looked at the grooves before, though, will it be easy to tell what I am looking for?

Also, I have been wondering if it is time for a new cartridge or not. I haven't been keeping track of the sides or hours or anything like that, but it must be getting up there now. Would I be able to tell with a jeweller's loupe, and what would I be looking for, exactly?

 

RE: A holy grail found -- and scratch repair, posted on December 19, 2014 at 09:10:09
rbolaw
 Hi! I agree with some other posters here -- a 10x jewelers loupe is not enough to do a serious examination of a stylus. I only have 60x capability, someone here suggests 200x is needed. From what I've read and pictures I've seen, the characteristic flattening wear wear on two opposite sides of the stylus from tracking the v-shaped groove is very different from chipping or cracking. But I swap out the moment I start to hear mistracking in loud or dense passages, the classic sign of ordinary wear.

 

Thanks a whole bunch for that video. What patience and, posted on December 20, 2014 at 17:12:59
alaskahiatt
Audiophile

Posts: 7501
Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
  Since: November 1, 2005
 what a steady hand is required. I am not sure that I have either anymore, especially the steady hand.

I noticed that he only rubbed the affected area with a cloth after moving the debris out of the groove. However, in the microscope picture, it seemed like the debris was still attached to the top edge of the groove. I would think that rubbing with a cloth or cleaning brush would just re-deposit the debris back into the groove. It would be nice to completely dislodge the debris pieces, then wash the record. It is possible that rubbing the microfiber cloth back and forth may have dislodged the debris. I would think that a piece of velvet rubbed back and forth would be good too.

I may give it a try on a Blue Note Kenny Burrell "Midnight Blue," that I was going to donate to Salvation Army. I just cannot stand seeing such a rare original going away after being so disappointed when I first pulled this record from its jacket. My record easily has 3 major long scratches that would require all this effort. It has a lot of hairline scratches as well. I actually got the record free, so I guess that I don't anything to complain about.

 

RE: Thanks a whole bunch for that video. What patience and, posted on December 20, 2014 at 20:09:07
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 I think the debris you're seeing is actually the vinyl that has been displaced by the scratch. I guess you're actually right...it's debris. Just not foreign matter. I think anyway.

And you are also right in that it seems like he just moves it out of the groove but it remains attached. I guess regardless of the appearance if the "tick" is eliminated then it doesn't matter. Not having tried it myself I guess it must be even more difficult to "break off" the excess material.

I would also think that perhaps fashioning a tool that uses a sharper needle or an insulin syringe might be a little more effective.

I'm ordering one of those microscopes to give it a try myself.

 

Could you point me to the source of that scope please., posted on December 21, 2014 at 23:28:36
alaskahiatt
Audiophile

Posts: 7501
Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
  Since: November 1, 2005
 I may try using my stereo microscope first with plenty of light. I am still thinking about the needle device, and the first thing that came to mind was a dissecting kit. Then, I thought about the way in which my Xacto knife functioned, and I successfully installed a needle in the knife(see pictures).

I am assuming that the scope used in the video is pretty pricey, but he sure saved money on the home made needle tool.






 

RE: Could you point me to the source of that scope please., posted on December 22, 2014 at 04:58:07
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Excellent tool! I'm sure that will make it easier. The only modification I would make if possible is to reduce the length. Any slight motion will be amplified by the length, so the shorter you can make it, the more control you will have when hovering over your LP!

What the guy is using in the video turns out to be a monocular 10 x 30 telescope with close focus capability. I haven't been able to find the exact clear hood he has and his monocular doesn't have a brand. But there are several on amazon. The run anywhere from 20 bucks into the hundreds. I think the key is getting a clear hood and a focal length that will allow access to the record.

 

RE: Could you point me to the source of that scope please., posted on December 22, 2014 at 12:06:46
baggrasan
 Pros use a fingernail paring.

 

Thanks Manny. I agree on short, as you want to come in low, posted on December 22, 2014 at 16:06:37
alaskahiatt
Audiophile

Posts: 7501
Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
  Since: November 1, 2005
 and with not too much leverage.

It's going to be interesting to find a clear hood to match the focal length of the scope and its ability to attach to the scope.

 

RE: Could you point me to the source of that scope please., posted on December 22, 2014 at 19:02:25
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Probably would be much more forgiving than a steel needle. Maybe any plastic like styrene would also do the trick. Anyone that's ever built a model and done a little kit bashing knows that the frame the parts come attached to can be heated, stretched and turned into a needle right?

 

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