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TT and amp matching

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Posted on October 21, 2014 at 06:44:10
Kindablue
Audiophile

Posts: 1072
Joined: August 7, 2003
 Just wondering how important and how did you come about matching your TT with your other audio set up? Do some TTs sound better with tubes, SS things of that nature. Is it a hit and miss learn as you go type of process or are there certain match ups that are just perfect from jump street? Also how long did it take you to get a good understanding of TTs if you started off late in the game so to speak. Just a few general questions as I go along I spent a lot of time learning about amps but am really just beginning to get the basics of the real understanding of TTs and the whole process and it is much more deeper then I thought it would be but well worth the time.

 

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RE: TT and amp matching, posted on October 21, 2014 at 11:47:29
sanman
Audiophile

Posts: 1780
Location: Redwood Coast
Joined: November 13, 2004
 I started quite late with the TT journey. I had a Garrard lab 80 since I was a teen, and didn't buy another TT until 8 -9 years ago. With that said, I found that I had to upgrade my speakers, room treatment, cartridges, and phono stage to really reveal differences in the various mid fi tables I went through.
It seems to me that the main sonic advantages of higher quality tables is in vibration and unwanted noise reduction and in steady speed. (I know there is more to it than that..). It would be fun to "on the fly" AB two different tables with identical cartridges in a system.
"When the demon is at your door, in the mornin' it won't be there no more"
Steely Dan

 

Kinda like stringing geese , posted on October 21, 2014 at 12:20:59
M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6601
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
  Since: July 4, 2007
 if you remember that old story. But there is a thread of logic that passes through components.

Turntable (motor unit w/platter) should be matched with the tone arm. Space for correct mounting position is obvious but appropriate resonance (energy transfer) should also be compatible.

Cartridge should be matched with the tone arm. Again the obvious, proper tracking force range is a must but the mass of the arm and compliance of the cartridge (resonant frequency) should also be compatible. Chartss are easily found which show the desired range but that is only a starting point. There can be exceptions.

Phono stage should be matched with the cartridge. Most critical is the level of gain. But ability to adjust loading can be helpful with some cartridges.

Preamp to phono stage is taken care of if built in. If separate units then sometimes the gain in the line stage section (preamp) must be considered although not often a problem.

Blue since you are asking about vinyl playback I'll assume you understand the preamp/amp, amp/speakers, and speakers/room interfaces. As for tube VS SS matching I believe it is a personal choice for how a specific cartridge sounds with various electronics for a pleasing result. The one no-no would be a noisy phono stage (likely tube) matched with a very low output cartridge.

Good luck. This is all a journey.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

Every system must be unique, posted on October 21, 2014 at 15:09:11
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15166
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 I mean, there are a LOT of combinations.

A lot of us fiddle until we are more-or-less happy OR run out of cash.

I think it is important NOT to have a weak link in the system. To me, that means dividing the cash relatively evenly and working from there.

 

RE: TT and amp matching, posted on October 21, 2014 at 15:42:10
mosin
Manufacturer

Posts: 10719
Joined: July 24, 2003
 The first component in the chain is the most important, in my opinion.

You shouldn't have to match a good turntable to the system, but inferior equipment with a good turntable will no doubt strut that equipment's lack of ability. Get better equipment in that case. Whether it is solid state or tube is neither here, nor there. Bad is bad, and good is good.



 

Yep. . . , posted on October 21, 2014 at 17:41:59
risabet
Audiophile

Posts: 3197
Location: SoCal
Joined: January 10, 2005
 the system will be limited by the sources ability to get the information into the rest of the system. Tubes or SS doesn't really matter in terms of the TT. The type of amplification is a question of taste IMO. Tube amps for about 10 months a years SS amp in the summer. Tube pre all the time.



Science is the great antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition.

Adam Smith

 

When I moved over to Naim set up..., posted on October 21, 2014 at 21:50:58
kuma
Audiophile

Posts: 10272
Location: IN
Joined: July 8, 2001
 Linn LP12 made the most sense as they were sold as a set before Linn got into making amplifiers.
Especially when I got a hold of an old pair of Linn Isobarik speakers, LP12 was their natural partner as they were voiced together and sold together along with Naim amps back in the 70s & early 80s.

The combo today still works.

Altho, the Linn also works well with my SET tube amps. Topology doesn't matter so long as the amps sound the way you want them to be.

Unlike a CD player, a home audition is almost impossible for a turntable, so I am more than happy with this tried-and-true old formula.

Now if I were starting over with nothing, then I would pick a turntable that I like first and work my way out downstream. But I think that an enjoyable system for your own listening pleasure comes from a lot of listening to many systems/gear and understanding what aspect of music reproduction you value most.

I am afraid no short cut if you want to dive in deep in this hobby but a level of commitment varies by individual.

As far as my turntable is concerned, I am still learning how to tune it better.

 

RE: TT and amp matching, posted on October 22, 2014 at 06:57:50
Kindablue
Audiophile

Posts: 1072
Joined: August 7, 2003
 First thank you all for taking the time to answere my question, it is much appreciated. AS far as amps go I am more then well set to change up and have a good ear for the sound I like. I have several TTs also I believe my main drive now is to learn more as to what may or may not help the sound of my system. That is to say carts, and what adjustments and also just plain understanding of what will help bring out the best in my TTs.
I know you guys are way ahead of me in the knowledge and understanding of TTs and it can get frustrating explaining more then once to someone who only wants to enjoy his music to the fullest.
But once again much appreciation for the help

 

RE: Kinda like stringing geese , posted on October 22, 2014 at 07:57:22
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
If separate units then sometimes the gain in the line stage section (preamp) must be considered although not often a problem.

True.

This is not often a problem but I encountered it once when switching from a Dynavector 17D3 (0.3mv) to a Benz Glider SL (0.4mv). The difference in output isn't huge (2.5dB) but it was just enough that the Benz would sometimes distort on peaks. I didn't always hear it but when I did, it really bugged me because the Dyna never did that. I thought I had an alignment problem or other issue with the Benz. Not so.

I don't recall what phono preamp I was using but I had the ARC LS25mkII linestage at the time which has 3 GAIN settings (separate and not related to the Volume control).

I suspect that the output of the phono preamp was occasionally overdriving the ARC linestage when the linestage was set to HIGH gain. The distortion problem disappeared completely when I cut back the linestage GAIN from HIGH to MEDIUM or LOW. This is easy to do on the ARC via front panel knob.


 

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