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How much better is the VPI Classic III over the VPI Scout?

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Posted on August 21, 2014 at 14:26:59
dtyoshih
Audiophile

Posts: 182
Joined: November 24, 2004
This question is aimed at anyone who has upgraded from the VPI Scout to the VPI Classic III.

I'm thinking about upgrading my original spec VPI Scout to the VPI Classic III but am wondering if this would result in a significant upgrade to the overall sound for my vinyl records. Or, should I look to upgrade elsewhere. I listen mostly to indie rock and classic rock music. My system is comprised of the following:

Speakers: Dynaudio Confidence C2
Turntable: VPI Scout (original model)
Cartridge: Dynavector 20X2(low)
Phone Pre: Vacuum State JLTi
Pre Amp: Ayre K-5xeMP
Amplifier: Ayre V-5xe
CD Player: Rega Saturn

 

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RE: How much better is the VPI Classic III over the VPI Scout?, posted on August 21, 2014 at 14:41:41
teenage diplomat
Audiophile

Posts: 896
Location: burke, va usa
Joined: February 3, 2001
I can offer comparable, but not exactly identical, experience. I started with an original Scout with a Dynavector 10x5, and climbed the VPI ladder up to my destination TT, an HRX. Along the way I owned a Scoutmaster. I used both the Scoutmaster and the HRX with a Dyna XX2 mk2 before moving to other cartridges. I found that as I climbed the ladder, high frequencies became more fully refined, the soundstage became a bit broader and deeper (depending on cartridge), and the noise floor dropped. Perhaps the most profound difference, however, was in the bass. The acrylic platter and relatively light bearing used in the Scout tended, to my ear, to contribute to a bit of lightness in the lower registers. Bass was tight, but not particularly profound. Assuming that you would be moving to the damped metal platter now offered in the Classic 3, you should hear deeper, more pronounced bass, just as I do now with the super platter on my HRX. You should also benefit by virtue of better isolation from outside vibrations, as the Scout has little in the way of isolation of its own (i used mine on an isolating platform). Finally, with the longer tonearm in the Classic, you should get a small, but perhaps meaningful, improvement in tracking. Is it worth the money? Only your ears can answer that question. Your other equipment would seem to warrant the investment, however. Hope this helps.

 

RE: How much better is the VPI Classic III over the VPI Scout?, posted on August 21, 2014 at 15:01:08
mondial
Audiophile

Posts: 891
Location: S.E. ASIA
Joined: January 14, 2007
This question could be answered w/ regards to hands on experience listening to both this fine tables by Harry & Mat of VPI unfortunately they said they wont post nor join the discussion in this forum. Call VPI and speak to Mat or Harry .Or visit VPI and its going to be worth the trip. I read that they have 4 new listening room. Set an appointment so you can listen to both tables w/ the same cartridge , electronices ,cable etc. Then you can decide. I myself plan to visit them again .

Mondial

 

Maybe we should afford the same privilege to manufacturers and their agents as we do to critics?, posted on August 21, 2014 at 19:59:01
We could have Manufacturers Corner where AA offers special protections like they do for critics.

I always appreciate the inputs of these guys and hate to see them being harassed and run off the way they did HW.

Seems strange to me that the industry marketeers are afforded such sanctuary while the real movers and shakers in the industry are left for the wolves.

 

RE: Maybe we should afford the same privilege to manufacturers and their agents as we do to critics?, posted on August 21, 2014 at 21:40:48
Not Yet There
Audiophile

Posts: 538
Joined: April 8, 2006
VPI is setting up their own user forum in which VPI staff can answer questions. It will be launched in a couple of weeks.

 

RE: Maybe we should afford the same privilege to manufacturers and their agents as we do to critics?, posted on August 21, 2014 at 23:47:00
TheBrewmaster
Audiophile

Posts: 365
Location: Southern U.S.
Joined: January 20, 2013
"where AA offers special protections like they do for critics."

I don't understand. What special protection do reviewers receive?

 

RE: Maybe we should afford the same privilege to manufacturers and their agents as we do to critics?, posted on August 22, 2014 at 07:51:39
Mel
Audiophile

Posts: 2993
Location: New York City Area
Joined: February 21, 2001
If history is any guide, HW will be back. He has been harassed off a few times, has gotten over it and returned. I hope he comes back again. While he is a fountain of experience and information for us, we serve the same functions for him. We are a great many VPI customers and potential customers. I'm confident that he continues to monitor this forum.

 

RE: How much better is the VPI Classic III over the VPI Scout?, posted on August 22, 2014 at 08:22:26
Curious
Dealer

Posts: 5878
Joined: April 28, 2010
Not even close. The Scout is a great table at its price but the Classic III is a great table, period. Superior tonearm, VTA on the fly, far more mass...put your fave cart on that bad boy and you're cooking with gas. I'm a big fan of the outer ring too, which adds another 4LBS of mass and flattens a record better than any other ring I've seen. I also love the rosewood skirt. In my showroom, I've got the Classic II with the Piano Black skirt, and it's a beauty.
"Hope is a good thing. Maybe, the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."

 

RE: How much better is the VPI Classic III over the VPI Scout?, posted on August 22, 2014 at 08:37:37
SteveBrown
Audiophile

Posts: 2454
Location: Portland, OR
Joined: November 14, 2002
I had a Scout, it was replaced by a Thorens TD124 which I thought was a much better table. The 124 was replaced several months ago by a Classic II, which bettered the 124.

 

RE: Maybe we should afford the same privilege to manufacturers and their agents as we do to critics?, posted on August 22, 2014 at 08:59:40
I'm talking about Critics Corner - a more heavily moderated asylum.

Only registered inmates can post and right at the top it says "be civil or be gone". I'm suggesting a similar more moderated forum for manufacturers and their agents. Go to the page, click on the quote and you will see -

" Civility?
Posted by Jim Austin on May 14, 2004 at 06:19:28
Here's a proposal, put forward for comment and for the consideration of the bored.
I don't think there's any conflict between free, open, unrestricted legitimate debate about audio equipment and ideas (on the one hand) and complete civility, no matter how forced (on the other).

"Free speech" and "censorship" are not the issue. It has nothing to do with the first amendment. This forum's management, like any newspaper's editorial page or any magazine's editor, has a right to decide what gets posted and what doesn't. A principled management will take this obligation seriously and endeavor to be even-handed while also enforcing standards. I suspect this is what the bored already tries to do.

Why not simply put direct personal criticism completely off-limits, and enforce respectful discourse? "I, personally, have never found the reviews written by Reviewer X to be helpful. Clearly, our tastes are different." No problem. "Despite what Reviewer Z wrote in his/her review, I've found this component to perform very well." Excellent. "Reviewer Y is an idiot, and is obviously on the take." Not okay. "All reviewers who work for audio magazines are on the take." Not okay, even, or especially, when only implied.

Posted by a representative of an equipment manufacturer: "Though I'm sure it's all a miscommunication, so far we have been unable to recover, after X months (or years) our Model X2345 preamplifer that was loaned to Reviewer Z for a review in Magazine A." Very courteous, even if the courtesy is forced, but it's blunt, names names, and gets the point across. BTW: the same post by a third party with no direct, reliable information--or who is unwilling to name his or her source--would NOT be okay. The acused has a right to confront the accuser. No manufacturer's rep would make such an accusation lightly, and they shouldn't.

I've used the Internet since before it was public, and participated in news groups almost from the first. Before that, it was electronic bulletin boards. And I've moderated a number of email discussion lists and Web-based discussion fora. From the beginning I noticed a tendency for people interacting electronically to speak, or write, uncivily, saying things that they would never say in person. Anyone who has spent much time interacting via electronic means is aware of this phenomenon.

The only way to avoid gutterization, I've learned, is to enforce a high level of civility. Anyone can write anything, as long as they meet their obligation to maintain a substantive, courteous, and civil discourse. "Moderation" is an appropriate term to describe the role of overseers of discussion fora.

Best Regards,
Jim Austin"

 

RE: Maybe we should afford the same privilege to manufacturers and their agents as we do to critics?, posted on August 22, 2014 at 13:23:22
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
January 29, 2004
> If history is any guide, HW will be back.

History shows us that HW has only submitted 450 posts to the Asylum in more than 14-years. Therefore, he is not much of a contributor to begin with. Given the fact that he has gone away mad several times only goes to show his inability to relate to people. If you go back and look through his small number of posts, you will find that he is often not very tactful, which invites some of the controversy surrounding his posts. Personally, I find his lack of tact rather entertaining, so I hope he does return. There's never a dull moment when HW joins in. ;-)

Best regards,
John Elison

 

RE: Maybe we should afford the same privilege to manufacturers and their agents as we do to critics?, posted on August 22, 2014 at 14:48:42
Mel
Audiophile

Posts: 2993
Location: New York City Area
Joined: February 21, 2001
"Only" 450 posts? So, John, how many posts have we had from your favorite TT manufacturers SOTA and Panasonic? Might that be "Zero"?

As for 450 posts over 14 years, that's better than 2 1/2 posts a month. Not bad for a busy head of a small design and manufacturing firm. He posts when he has something so say. That's more than I can say for some of the "volume" posters hereabouts.

And as for tact, are you not the pot calling the kettle black?

We all know you don't like him and insult him at every opportunity--and we're tired of the same old, same old song!

Mel

 

RE: Maybe we should afford the same privilege to manufacturers and their agents as we do to critics?, posted on August 22, 2014 at 15:13:23
Lakeshore Larry
Audiophile

Posts: 215
Joined: July 30, 2014
I think it is a good idea to do this. Insulting the opinion or the equipment choices of another inmate is bad enough, but when you insult a critic or mfr, it becomes personal. This is their livelihood and they have a considerable amount of time, money and ego invested in creating a reputation or creating products, and attacking that is like attacking their family.

Which is quite literally what happened in HW's case. Despite middleground's insistance that he was only commenting on a turntable's aesthetics (given his choice of phrasing, I highly doubt it was unintentional)he obvioulsy hit a very personal nerve. Any person with a shred of decency would have immediatlely apologized, ESPECIALLY if it was unintentional, after the facts became apparent.

The reason people can be so cheeky on these blogs is there is no danger of getting your lights punched out when step over the line, something that does exist in face to face encounters. If you've ever been to a gun show, you know what I'm talking about.

 

RE: Maybe we should afford the same privilege to manufacturers and their agents as we do to critics?, posted on August 22, 2014 at 15:31:10
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
January 29, 2004
> And as for tact, are you not the pot calling the kettle black?

Me? I'm one of the most tactful inmates here. What are you talking about? ;-)

 

RE: Maybe we should afford the same privilege to manufacturers and their agents as we do to critics?, posted on August 22, 2014 at 16:08:01
TheBrewmaster
Audiophile

Posts: 365
Location: Southern U.S.
Joined: January 20, 2013
Interesting.... thanks for pointing that out. I've never noticed that in the Critic's Corner before.

 

RE: How much better is the VPI Classic III over the VPI Scout?, posted on August 22, 2014 at 18:00:27
Greg Gale
Audiophile

Posts: 213
Joined: May 19, 2001



I own a Classic 3 and have similar electronics including the same Pre-Amp you own. This wont help you in the comparison but this has been one of the best audio purchases I have made in over 40 years I have been building my system.

I used to listen to my SACD player most of the time but since I purchased this table for the last 1 1/2 years I have played my SACD only on occasion.

For the money I feel it offers tremendous value and it looks great in Rosewood. Here is a photo of it.

 

If only he owned an SL-1200 or DL-S1, posted on August 22, 2014 at 19:01:17
Curious
Dealer

Posts: 5878
Joined: April 28, 2010
Then he'd have thousands of posts on this forum.
"Hope is a good thing. Maybe, the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."

 

RE: If only he owned an SL-1200 or DL-S1, posted on August 22, 2014 at 19:25:13
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
January 29, 2004
I recently heard some high-resolution 24/96 digital copies of vinyl made from a VPI HRX turntable with a Denon DL-S1 cartridge using an E.A.R. 864 preamp and recorded on an Alesis Masterlink. There is definite synergy in this combination. The music sounded as good as anything I've heard from vinyl. I wonder if HW has ever tried a Denon DL-S1 cartridge with any of his turntables. Of course, it requires the right preamp, too, and the E.A.R. 864 seemed to be nothing short of spectacular in this setup.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

LOL. Sums it up nicely. nt, posted on August 23, 2014 at 09:10:10
nt

 

RE: LOL. Sums it up nicely. nt, posted on August 23, 2014 at 12:56:30
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
January 29, 2004
I guess I'm lucky I'm not a manufacturer so I don't have to get mad and go home. ;-)

 

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