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Hostility

172.5.209.5
Posted on April 17, 2014 at 07:01:08
WntrMute2
Audiophile

Posts: 782
Location: Detroit
Joined: September 16, 2002
 I used to come here to read about higher end stuff usually not discussed on AK, VE or AC. Folks were genuinely helpful and courteous with a few exceptions. Currently there seems to be a trend towards d**k waving and pi**ing contests that dominate. Antagonism abounds. Just pointing out a disturbing trend on this forum. Read the thread below this one for just one example.

 

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    ...
WTF??, posted on April 17, 2014 at 07:37:16
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 (Title of this post is meant to poke fun, nothing personal.)
Below we have two smart knowledgeable guys having a technical argument. I found their discussion interesting and thought provoking. It's only too bad that the repartee ended in vitriol, but they are big boys and will get over it. Cripes, I sure prefer it to "What's spinning?"

I don't own a tt with an inverted bearing, but I have often wondered about the benefits. The feature is used as selling point very often, and it behooves one to understand why it might be a good thing to have, or not.

 

RE: WTF??, posted on April 17, 2014 at 07:51:11
WntrMute2
Audiophile

Posts: 782
Location: Detroit
Joined: September 16, 2002
 So, posts like this are helpful to you?

"Don't use that crap with me, John."
or
"Better luck next time, Mark."

Not to pick on these two. It seems a common tone. Sort of like "WTF"

 

RE: WTF??, posted on April 17, 2014 at 08:11:48
DRam
Audiophile

Posts: 1309
Location: Montana
Joined: July 30, 2005
 I found the discussion informative. Until reading it I'd never heard of an inverted bearing in a TT. Reading the arguments presented was interesting and increased my knowledge of audio equipment.

A little sniping doesn't bother me or detract from the message given. In fact, since printed words don't carry tone or inflection it may be just some good natured back and forth.

 

RE: WTF??, posted on April 17, 2014 at 08:15:33
WntrMute2
Audiophile

Posts: 782
Location: Detroit
Joined: September 16, 2002
 OK then. The tone bothers me but maybe no one else.

 

if it bothers you, don't read it!, posted on April 17, 2014 at 08:24:30
gkargreen
Audiophile

Posts: 1562
Location: DC
Joined: February 5, 2005
 we sure cannot temper all behavior here, or anywhere else, getting upset over two people going at each other doesn't make for a good day for sure, but don't hurt yourself because of other people, just walk away and smell the roses!

 

The thread below isn't the best example..., posted on April 17, 2014 at 08:34:49
Bry
Manufacturer

Posts: 5610
Location: S. Florida
Joined: July 21, 2005
 It's actually a technical disagreement between people with some knowledge on the subject. A better example are the threads that go far off the right side of the screen (classic view) with tit-for-tat insults and eventually get deleted or moved.

 

RE: if it bothers you, don't read it!, posted on April 17, 2014 at 08:52:53
WntrMute2
Audiophile

Posts: 782
Location: Detroit
Joined: September 16, 2002
 It doesn't really effect me. I'm just pointing out there is an increasing antagonistic tone here. Of course I can just ignore it but I usually enjoy a discussion between experts but the "you are wrong no, you are wrong" exchanges detract from the value of these discussions.

 

RE: if it bothers you, don't read it!, posted on April 17, 2014 at 09:08:19
Fred J
Audiophile

Posts: 21808
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Joined: April 24, 2002
 I bet you'd like to buy the World a Coke, no ? ;-)

 

RE: if it bothers you, don't read it!, posted on April 17, 2014 at 09:20:42
Bry
Manufacturer

Posts: 5610
Location: S. Florida
Joined: July 21, 2005
 Better make it a rum & Coke. ;)

 

A coke or some coke???? . ;. . ;8^) /nt\, posted on April 17, 2014 at 09:23:06
Opus 33 1/3
Audiophile

Posts: 4184
Location: D.C. Area
Joined: February 19, 2014





Opus 33 1/3

 

FWIW - I have no problem with it either, posted on April 17, 2014 at 10:56:04
Goober58
 Seems like attempting to understand the POV of the individuals in the conversation would be a good starting point to getting a grip on the topic.

It would have been nice had they all got on the same page before attempting to forward the technical conversation but it's not all bad.

Listening to some expert pontificate unchallenged one might conclude something has been learned only to realize later that the assumption and generalizations of the expert have actually blinded the reader to the bigger picture.

 

RE: FWIW - I have no problem with it either, posted on April 17, 2014 at 11:16:43
BPoletti
Audiophile

Posts: 931
Location: Midwest
Joined: October 3, 2010
 IMO, when HW jumped in, the debate was over.

 

What the heck, posted on April 17, 2014 at 11:29:30
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 The thing is that if you hang out here long enough you will come to know that both guys can on occasion get a bit testy. So in this instance, they got testy with each other. Tomorrow they will find something to agree upon. No biggee.

Meantime, inverted bearings are interesting, are they not?

 

Yes, they are not. /nt\, posted on April 17, 2014 at 11:30:49
BPoletti
Audiophile

Posts: 931
Location: Midwest
Joined: October 3, 2010
 .

 

Did you mean, "No, they are not"?, posted on April 17, 2014 at 12:42:52
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 "Yes, they are not" could be a rather clever oxymoron.
I guess you would prefer to listen to music. How odd.

 

No, definitely more than one., posted on April 17, 2014 at 13:09:36
richardl
Audiophile

Posts: 3555
Joined: September 5, 2002
 Despite all this defending of offending, when you get to a forum that is just a long harangue, it is uncivil and deadly dull as ignorance rules. I agree with you. Incivility is unacceptable.

 

RE: Did you mean, "No, they are not"?, posted on April 17, 2014 at 14:32:00
BPoletti
Audiophile

Posts: 931
Location: Midwest
Joined: October 3, 2010
 Yeah, that music thing is still more important than the equipment it takes to produce it. I guess I have my priorities backwards. ;)

 

RE: Did you mean, "No, they are not"?, posted on April 17, 2014 at 14:41:32
BPoletti
Audiophile

Posts: 931
Location: Midwest
Joined: October 3, 2010
 Harry has spoken. That's good enough for me. He has produced excellent tables with both kinds of bearings, the right kind and the wrong kind (define it either way). I have one kind that is excellent. Friends of mine have the other kind that is excellent.

IMO, it's all in the implementation and the end result. There are many other factors that play a much bigger part than which way the bearing points.

 

RE: Hostility, posted on April 17, 2014 at 15:13:14
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 If you talking about below, it used to get much worse than that. You should have read the political lecture I got when I suggested that it was a bad idea to have exposed mercury baths in that Keith Monks tonearm. It was many year ago, but it still strikes me as very odd!

Dave

 

Agree, but..., posted on April 17, 2014 at 15:37:08
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 the two methods are polar opposites. So a discussion of whether one has an advantage vs the other, or not, is of interest, if one has an interest in tt design.

 

John and I have history, posted on April 17, 2014 at 17:13:28
Mark Kelly
Manufacturer

Posts: 7175
Location: Willy, VIC
Joined: February 28, 2002
 I broke my rule never to respond to him, for which I apologise. I shall also try to avoid saying that anything is "completely illogical"


Mark Kelly

 

RE: Hostility, posted on April 17, 2014 at 17:44:55
mosin
Manufacturer

Posts: 10719
Joined: July 24, 2003
 I'd start waving mine around, but the weather has been so cold around here the last couple of days that I don't really believe it's advisable.

 

Seemed like rather mild stuff to me...., posted on April 17, 2014 at 18:04:12
StephenJK
 more like a "private" conversation between acquaintances. Don't read too much into it.

 

RE: Agree, but..., posted on April 17, 2014 at 19:31:06
BPoletti
Audiophile

Posts: 931
Location: Midwest
Joined: October 3, 2010
 I have completed building and modifying the last of my tables, a second generation TNT. Don't have interest or time to do another, nor do I think I can better what I have today (Aries Extended with Super Platter) even if I get an inverted bearing VPI Classic platter / bearing or maybe score a Teres (haven't heard but supposed to be pretty good).

I did hear a pretty good table with an inverted jewel bearing some time back. It was an RPM table with an RPM arm. Good sounding combo.

But to each their own. Good luck in your endeavors.

 

RE: Hostility, posted on April 18, 2014 at 04:40:25
Solidcore
Audiophile

Posts: 374
Joined: April 19, 2001
 I think the (seemingly) acceptance of the kind of hostility we often experience in this Asylum have for some time created a very poor standard. I for one try to avoid reading the aggressive sub standard messages / way to respond from John and others. Although the same people can be very generous and helpful shearing their knowledge. The exchange of opinions here often have a content and a tone you never would use face to face.
I think the standard here should be like a face to face conversation. It should be possible to agree to disagree =;^)

Peace - Jan

 

I too am done..., posted on April 18, 2014 at 07:28:21
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 with turntable fussing, altho I never went so far as to build one from the bearing out. I am just interested in inverted bearings, for the heck of it. None of my 5 tables has an inverted bearing. I kind of lust after an Exclusive P3, which has both inverted bearing and coreless motor, two nice tt features not generally found in the same product.

 

RE: Hostility, posted on April 18, 2014 at 08:18:31
caligari
Audiophile

Posts: 415
Joined: March 20, 2008
 The least you can do is to point out exactly which "below" thread you are talking about? Based on others' comments, I have to assume is the one between John and Mark? What's the big deal? They're both engineers, who have history before, lobbing at each other. Let them duke it out while we watch and learn. Take it easy!

 

RE: Hostility, posted on April 18, 2014 at 08:57:37
WntrMute2
Audiophile

Posts: 782
Location: Detroit
Joined: September 16, 2002
 I am taking it easy. I was just pointing out there is hostility here that wasn't a few years ago. If you like it then fine. I prefer a bit more civility thats all. Take it easy back at ya!

 

RE: Hostility, posted on April 18, 2014 at 10:15:01
caligari
Audiophile

Posts: 415
Joined: March 20, 2008
If you really want to go back in time and go back further enough, it was even worse!

 

You're a newbie here., posted on April 18, 2014 at 14:30:25
Fred J
Audiophile

Posts: 21808
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Joined: April 24, 2002
 The John and Mark exchange doesn't even begin to register on the hostility scale.

 

Not really expecting education here, posted on April 18, 2014 at 15:13:30
berndt
Audiophile

Posts: 255
Location: nocal
Joined: June 19, 2006
 Just entertainment.

 

What a load of possum t#*d, you f^)#ing SOB!, posted on April 18, 2014 at 15:25:47
Rick W
 Who the hell appointed you to determine how hostile the posts by those two s#<+heads was?! This place used to be an oasis of peaceful discussion of the Caliburn's arm lift mechanism. But now its become a refuge for hostile c^#)suckers who pollute the place with their G*^damm anger. Its idler-wheel-brains like you who not only tolerate but encourage f^#*ing uncivil posts from mean spirited a**holes. Scumbag motherf*>#ers who ruin the tranquility of this forum and disregard common decency should be forced to read every May Belt post on AA.

Only my sense of decorum prevents me from expressing the full depth of my outrage regarding this matter. Say no more, you worthless piece of Dachshund droppings. You're on the cusp of offending me.

 

RE: Did you mean, "No, they are not"?, posted on April 18, 2014 at 15:35:17
WntrMute2
Audiophile

Posts: 782
Location: Detroit
Joined: September 16, 2002
 Agree with BPolleti, you are all boring me now. I won't bring it up again. I'm sorry you all got your panties in a wad.

 

ROTFL !!!! That's more like it , posted on April 18, 2014 at 15:42:01
Fred J
Audiophile

Posts: 21808
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Joined: April 24, 2002
 I don't feel at all fulfilled unless I've offended the mass loaded belt drive deviants ;-)

 

That reminds me. Its almost past happy hour and I'm overdue to load my mass. See ya, Fred. nt, posted on April 18, 2014 at 16:07:56
Rick W
 nt

 

At first I thought that you were serious!!! On my serious note, I am saving the post for future..., posted on April 19, 2014 at 10:39:20
J. S. Bach
Audiophile

Posts: 9578
Location: Chester, SC
Joined: November 28, 2001
Contributor
  Since: June 29, 2004
 ...amusement and education. Thank you greatly for lightening up my dreary day.



Later Gator,
Dave
Find more about Weather in Chester, SC

 

2014 POST of the YEAR !, posted on April 19, 2014 at 12:41:48
Fred J
Audiophile

Posts: 21808
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Joined: April 24, 2002
 Rick " Dachshund droppings. " is astoundingly evocative, bravo !

Regards Ferd

 

Can't match your wit, Fred, but glad if I provided a chuckle :-) nt, posted on April 19, 2014 at 13:27:15
Rick W
 nt

 

Well said,..., posted on April 20, 2014 at 13:12:16
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 but you misspelled "sh**head" and a few other words as well.

 

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