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Using thick speaker cable with vintage receivers

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Posted on May 19, 2016 at 12:45:09
py272
Audiophile

Posts: 140
Location: Hawaii
Joined: February 20, 2007
 Does anyone have any tips on using thick speaker wires (14 gauge or thicker) on vintage receivers?

I have a Kenwood KR 6600 receiver (1970s vintage) in which the speaker jacks on the rear of the receiver is the stock plastic clip type. I cannot seem to get any cable thicker than 18 gauge into the speaker clip hole. Based on a visual inspection of the clip, it looks I could drill the hole a little larger which would then allow me to insert a larger cable. Would this work?



 

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RE: Using thick speaker cable with vintage receivers, posted on May 19, 2016 at 13:21:36
caffeinator
Audiophile

Posts: 1729
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 22, 2003
 I wouldn't recommend it. There's a risk of cracking the plastic block in which the hole resides, and that could lead to a bigger repair.

My first choice, which I've done many times, is to terminate the large gage wire with a pin-type terminal (see linked listing), which will easily fit into those style terminal blocks.

If enlarging the hole is still what you want, I'd suggest other approaches, such as gently enlarging (by hand) with a reamer of some sort while vacuuming away chips, or perhaps a heated implement of some kind, or something...but I'd be reluctant to do any of these when the pin-plug cable ends are so easy and inexpensive.

 

Here is some cable to use along with the connectors, posted on May 19, 2016 at 17:25:01
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005



caffeinator suggests.As speaker cable,this stuff works remarkably well.


"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: Here is some cable to use along with the connectors, posted on May 19, 2016 at 19:50:32
Byrd69
Audiophile

Posts: 2881
Location: East Syracuse, New York
Joined: August 23, 2004
 A friend did a nice job of terminating some extension cord material. They sound okay to me....and others (who don't know what the cables are made from)


Your interest may vary but the results will be same. (Byrd 2020)

I can't compete with the dead. (Buck W. 2010)

Cowards can't be heroes. (Byrd 2017)

Why don't catfish have kittens? (Moe Howard 1937)

 

I used Radio Shack flat pin connectors for 10-12 gauge wire(pic)., posted on May 19, 2016 at 20:09:17
alaskahiatt
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Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
  Since: November 1, 2005



I crimped the connectors onto Radio Shack 12 gauge square wire and protected the connection with color coded heat shrink tubing. I then bent the top third of the pin 90 degrees and inserted that into the spring loaded speaker terminals on my Yamaha CR2020. The pin fit the small opening in the spring loaded speaker terminal with no problem. I bent the pin, so that the wire along the floor could support the connection at the receiver. If you don't bend the pin, then the heavy wire and pin enter the receiver connectors straight putting lots of vertical strain on the terminals.

 

LOL...yeah...I cryo-treat and age them first, posted on May 19, 2016 at 20:40:44
caffeinator
Audiophile

Posts: 1729
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 22, 2003
 By leaving them in the trunk of the car all winter...

 

RE: LOL...yeah...I cryo-treat and age them first, posted on May 20, 2016 at 06:01:58
Supercool!
Audiophile

Posts: 703
Location: East Coast
Joined: August 5, 2004
 Isn't Rat Shack gone?

You could probably do the same thing with a nice piece of Speltz Anti-cable or some other small guage quality solid core copper cable, wrapping it around the large diameter cable like a collar with the end sticking out in the correct direction and simply solder the collar to the cable. I bet the quality of metal would be better than what was in those RS connectors.

Alternately, and I believe the best thing to do if you're not concerned with keeping it stock vintage, is to replace those garbage clip connectors completely with real binding posts. I've done this to all my vintage amps and have never looked back.

Good luck!

 

RE: I used Radio Shack flat pin connectors for 10-12 gauge wire(pic)., posted on May 20, 2016 at 08:42:45
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 As pin connections go, the RadioShack are about as good as anything you'll find out there. I bought a bunch as they were fading away. I am not sure how easy they are to get now.

Dave

 

RE: Here is some cable to use along with the connectors, posted on May 20, 2016 at 09:20:54
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 If you are not into the "Halloween" look and a Walmart is convenient, you can pick up 40' of Yardmaster power cord and make the White Lightning speaker cable (see link). The instructions are for low mass banana plugs, but I prefer spade lugs. If you have any extra, you can make unshielded interconnects too. The article recommends Switchcraft connectors, which should work fine, but it is DIY, so you can use whatever you want. Ken Shindo uses the switchraft. Unshielded interconnects are all the rage on the Cable Asylum, so in case your worried about it, you will be in fashion.

Dave

 

RE: Using thick speaker cable with vintage receivers, posted on May 20, 2016 at 11:50:28
py272
Audiophile

Posts: 140
Location: Hawaii
Joined: February 20, 2007
 Thanks for all of the tips and I will look into the various suggested terminations suggestions as well as the cable options (I have tried the walmart white lighting cable and like it very much however my set just has no connectors - I just soldered the wires and they are too fat to insert into the receiver speaker clips).

I was hoping someone could have confirmed if drilling the hole bigger in the speaker connector in the back of the receiver was ok but I guess nobody has done this. I will try this as there are three sets of speaker connections on the back of the receiver so if I mess one one up that will not be a problem.

I will let you know how it goes.

 

Those Radio Shack pins I suggested fit right into the spring type, posted on May 20, 2016 at 14:37:27
alaskahiatt
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Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
  Since: November 1, 2005
 speaker terminals on the old receivers. The pins can be simply crimped onto 10-12 gauge thick wire. I had the same problem you had, and the RS pins worked perfectly. No need to drill out any holes on the speaker terminals.

 

RE: Those Radio Shack pins I suggested fit right into the spring type, posted on May 20, 2016 at 14:45:49
py272
Audiophile

Posts: 140
Location: Hawaii
Joined: February 20, 2007
 Thanks, I will try to locate some of those RS pins

 

Radio Shack still exists, and here they are . . . , posted on May 20, 2016 at 15:16:56
alaskahiatt
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Posts: 7503
Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
  Since: November 1, 2005
 nt

 

RE: Radio Shack still exists, and here they are . . . , posted on May 20, 2016 at 15:47:05
py272
Audiophile

Posts: 140
Location: Hawaii
Joined: February 20, 2007
 Thanks, I also found them on ebay. Will be ordering a few sets.

 

Absolute sound tested the HD 14 Home depot cables, posted on May 21, 2016 at 22:59:12
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
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 and these were a couple of their guys but they gave them a pretty favorable review at the time. I use the flat wire Goertz on the Newform ribbons but on the big Martin Logans I'm using the Straight wire Maestro.
I also tried a pair of 10ga Home Depot cables we made up for a friend and to be honest,there was nothing we could pick out immediately that was better about the Maestros over the HD-10 ga we put together. The HD extension cord cables work very well,especially for the price and I could be very happy with them from what I heard on my big system.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

A litle caution with respect to the HD-14 cable, posted on May 22, 2016 at 05:40:27
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 I used the wire in these HD outdoor extension cords as speaker cables for years after reading that Absolute Sound review (by Paul Seydor). Definitely better sounding than the kimber I'd been using. We called them "halloween cables" because of their black-and orange PVC covers -- I hid mine in Techflex. But not being into audiophile stuff (I can't imagine why), Home Depot switched suppliers and the last time I checked, their 14 gauge cables didn't look like the ones I used.

What the hell, maybe the new ones sound better. I kinda doubt they'd beat my Clear Day Double Shotguns, but I guess stranger things have happened.

 

RE: A litle caution with respect to the HD-14 cable, posted on May 22, 2016 at 20:38:45
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 Dave
To be honest,the bigger changes I have found with wire are with the interconnect RCAs. Since the ICs carry very low voltage and higher amplification from the preamp and phono stages,that is where I can hear an instantaneous difference between cables..With speaker wire there are differences as well but when you use a large enough higher quality speaker cable,the differences are much smaller and you have to strain to hear them many times..
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: A litle caution with respect to the HD-14 cable, posted on May 23, 2016 at 04:54:25
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 I agree. Have to say, though, I have been most amazed by the differences among power cords.

 

RE: A litle caution with respect to the HD-14 cable, posted on May 23, 2016 at 08:21:23
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 I have been most amazed by the differences among power cords.

I have some expensive cords here that came in stuff I had bought but the problem with the IEC power cords is the fact the are a slip on connection and that's a weakness that can cause cause micro arcing. It's a lot better to wrap and solder the end of the cords but what I did was put braided shielding over the cord and soldered the one end of it to the chassis and this way it will take any RF to ground in relation to the cord..You can also put inductive clamps on the cord that will take care of RF as Eli did on his cords.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: A litle caution with respect to the HD-14 cable, posted on May 23, 2016 at 08:32:21
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 That's the ideal, purist approach but it pretty much destroys any resale value, so I haven't gone there. Some IEC connectors (e.g., Furutech) seem to grip a lot better than the ones we used to have to deal with. But I'm not sure we gained much by going away from hard-wired PCs. After-market PC manufacturers would surely disagree.

 

UPDATE, posted on May 23, 2016 at 12:15:03
py272
Audiophile

Posts: 140
Location: Hawaii
Joined: February 20, 2007
 After considering your many helpful tips I decided I would try to enlarge the speaker cable hole in the back of the receiver since the receiver allows for three sets of speakers to be wired (A, B and C). I figure if mess up on one set, I would still have two other usable sets and all I needed was one.

Taking a tip from Caffeinator where he suggested careful drilling of the hole, I took various drill bits and slowly enlarged the whole by inserting the bits into the hole and spinning it with a pair of pliers. It took a while but I was able to get the hole to about twice the stock size and this enabled me to use my current speaker cables. If I would guess, the size of the whole would now fit 14awg wires.

Anyway, wanted to post my findings should anybody consider doing what I did.

 

After-market PC manufacturers would surely disagree., posted on May 23, 2016 at 20:01:14
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
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 No doubt because it's a money making scheme..Just simple logic tells us that a little 5ft section of cord couldn't dramatically change things because once you get past that 5ft of cord, you are back to the standard 12/2 house wiring.How are we supposed to overcome that?....If a cord supplies adequate voltage and current,its job is done.The only thing we can do is trap out RF and maybe digital noise that is all over the place and possibly make the cord to act as a filter by putting the shielding on it or the RF inductive filters and trapping out some of it..The only problem is,you would still have to trap out the RF and digital noise everywhere else from getting in the amp or preamp..The only way to do this is to build an amp or preamp with a good copper plated chassis and shielded signal wire and good power supply components.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

Have to disagree., posted on May 24, 2016 at 05:36:09
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 "Simple logic" or no, power cords DO matter, at least for me. I didn't want to believe this for a long, long time. But now I put power cords right up there with interconnects and ahead of speaker cables, in their contribution to sonics and synergy. Power cords and CONNECTORS, that is, noting that if I can change the sound for the better (or worse) by switching connectors alone, there's something happening that simple logic doesn't account for. I've heard it too many times to start doubting now. And I have yet to try a power cord that cost more than $250 (I mostly make my own or reterminate existing ones). Been doing this for years.

Case in point. I think the Pangea PCs from Audio Advisor are great for the money. But I reterminated one pair of the original AC-14 (14 gauge) with Furutech ends and the difference -- and improvement -- was clear. Later I bought a pair of the supposedly improved AC-14SE version and damned if they didn't sound as good as my reterminated ones.

Second case in point: Half a dozen audiobuddies and I were listening to one guy's new CD player and finding it wanting. All of these guys (except me) are hard-core DIY people and one suggested changing the PC to a cord he had brought along. The difference was downright amazing and, yes, we switched back to the original cord at least 3 times because we were frankly incredulous. The "winner" was a Cardas but I don't remember the model. This single experience, approx. 6 years ago, pretty much made me not just a believer but a confirmed one.

 

RE: Using thick speaker cable with vintage receivers, posted on May 26, 2016 at 13:41:08
BillH
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Posts: 3913
Location: Baton Rouge
Joined: December 23, 1999
 It isn't okay to drill, because the hole will continue to enlarge and you will begin to lose contact surface and all the "benefits" you think are gaining will be diminished.

As I got to be an old audio lunatic, I began to realize that some things just aren't worth the trouble. That was about five years ago.

 

RE: Using thick speaker cable with vintage receivers, posted on May 27, 2016 at 07:59:14
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 Hey if he's not afraid to drill, why not a nice set of 5-way binding posts. They are not expensive if you stick with gold plated brass. Parts Express is having a sale on their Dayton "WBT" knockoffs.

Dave

 

RE: Have to disagree., posted on June 3, 2016 at 16:08:36
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 But a soldered in power cord is going to be better than an IEC because you will not get the micro arcing you get with a slip on cord.Of course you need to put shielding on the cord to trap out RF and digital noise but,that takes some work..It can be done tho.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: Have to disagree., posted on June 3, 2016 at 16:11:51
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 But a soldered in power cord is going to be better than an IEC because you will not get the micro arcing you get with a slip on cord.Of course you need to put shielding on the cord to trap out RF and digital noise but,that takes some work..It can be done tho.

I have some nice power cords,and on the amp's I own that have IEC connectors,I heard no difference..I maybe need to try it on a preamp or CD player to get a better perspective.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

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