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Vintage Audio Equipment Repairs

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Posted on May 14, 2015 at 14:34:28
AudioSoul
Audiophile

Posts: 4594
Location: north central AZ
Joined: July 9, 2005
Can vintage SS equipment be repaired with out a schematic? I recently purchased a David Belles Model 55 preamp and Model 2 amp. They are working fine now but I am concerned someday they will break. David Belles is being a snot and not publishing his schematics for this equipment even thought it was manufactured in the 80"s......

 

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RE: Vintage Audio Equipment Repairs, posted on May 14, 2015 at 15:22:48
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 Yes, it just takes a little more time to figure out. And in repairs - time is money.

charles

 

RE: Vintage Audio Equipment Repairs, posted on May 14, 2015 at 17:16:01
The Duke
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 6, 2001
 You can add Bedini to the snot list. They flat out refused to offer any aid to my technician.

 

Bedini? So THAT is why his SS is unmatched even now... makes sense~nT, posted on May 14, 2015 at 21:58:40
Cleantimestream
Audiophile

Posts: 7551
Location: Kentucky
Joined: June 30, 2005
 ~!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.

 

Naim is the worst, for this and many other reasons..., posted on May 15, 2015 at 09:04:19
Vinyl Valet
Audiophile

Posts: 1346
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Joined: November 13, 2003
 Not only won't they supply schematics but will not even provide spare parts, many of which are made only for Naim. Then in my experience, they take months to do a simple repair and then charge obscene amounts of money for it.

There are many products and companies in high end audio and other specialty hobbies where the bulk of the marketing and claims are total BS. No surprise. But in my opinion, Naim is the all time worst. And I know better than most; many years ago, sadly, I was one of their dealers. It looked like a good concept on first blush but the more I got to know their real marketing philosophy and got to really see how they operate, it wasn't long before I dropped them. I did invest in a really expensive demo system. Did it sound good? Yes. But with some effort, I found it was easy to beat their performance with other products at a fraction of the cost.

Avoid Naim at all cost.
Open up your mind, in pours the trash. - Meat Puppets, 1987

 

RE: Naim is the worst, for this and many other reasons..., posted on May 15, 2015 at 09:46:52
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 Scratch Naim off the list unless I get something for free or almost free. When something is cheap, I have bought it just to be able to peek inside. I think I would like to pop the top off of a Naim! I have dealt with Oracle, NAD and Adcom. They all have been very cooperative ,but I generally don't expect much given the age of what I'm dealing with. Are there any manufactures that you know that support their vintage gear?

Dave

 

RE: Naim is the worst, for this and many other reasons..., posted on May 15, 2015 at 09:54:52
6bq5
Audiophile

Posts: 4391
Location: SF Bay
Joined: August 16, 2001
 Linn is not much better - I found a Klassic that needed a trip to Scotland for 6 months to operate again...
Happy Listening

 

RE: Vintage Audio Equipment Repairs, posted on May 15, 2015 at 09:55:07
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 I really liked the 25/25. However, I am sure their are better Class A amps now. I have a switchable Class A Yamaha M60, but I actually prefer the sound of my Threshold CAS-1, which is sliding bias A.

Dave

 

RE: Naim is the worst, for this and many other reasons..., posted on May 15, 2015 at 10:44:05
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 No problem with my early 70's LP12 yet!

Dave

 

Not my experience with NAIM they were great, posted on May 15, 2015 at 10:47:14
kintyre695
Audiophile

Posts: 975
Location: Toronto
Joined: September 6, 2003
 I had a Nait 1, the first decent piece of equipment I had ever bought. It wouldn't power up. I sent it to the distributor in Montreal, through the local dealer. It came back in about 3 weeks. The dealer told me that even they didn't have a schematic for the unit and had to troubleshoot nearly the entire board to find the problem. They charged about $100 for this, which must have been at a loss. I was entirely happy with this Naim and a Nait 2 I purchased later.

David

 

Like all cults..., posted on May 15, 2015 at 11:51:17
Vinyl Valet
Audiophile

Posts: 1346
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Joined: November 13, 2003
 the religion of Linn and Naim is faith based. Start to apply any logic or science and the whole mess begins to fall apart.

Yes, the LP12 is a classic. Was demoing a fully Naimed LP12 with the big Naim system. Very nice sound but like all Naim or Linn gear, I could do better with superior products at far less cost.
Open up your mind, in pours the trash. - Meat Puppets, 1987

 

Naim supports all their gear..., posted on May 15, 2015 at 11:53:26
Vinyl Valet
Audiophile

Posts: 1346
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Joined: November 13, 2003
 You just have to send it to them, pay shipping both ways along with, in my experience, their silly high costs and long turnaround. This has always been my personal experience.
Open up your mind, in pours the trash. - Meat Puppets, 1987

 

In all fairness to the latest US distributor..., posted on May 15, 2015 at 12:07:48
Vinyl Valet
Audiophile

Posts: 1346
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Joined: November 13, 2003
 and there have been several over the last ten years (that should alone tell you something about Naim, the company), the latest being Audio Plus Services. They have an awesome reputation in the industry and surely must be turning things around, if for no other reason, it's just plain good business.

I want to make it very clear that my issue is primarily with Naim and secondly the Brits in Chicago that were running the company into the ground ten years or so ago (and no, I don't hate Brits; my dad was one; I love Great Britain and most things British; except their food, bad teeth, Linn and Naim).

I'm sure Audio Plus Services is going to do a timely and excellent job regarding the servicing of Naim gear of any age. It's why they've been around so long; a very well run company. Regarding parts and schematics; they entered into an agreement with Naim and must support their policies. I can even understand why a company would be very secretive about their proprietary information, ie schematics. Much money and time has been spent on R&D. Intellectual property does not mean much anymore in our culture. It's now accepted and common to steal from musicians. The same with R&D. Given the opportunity, folks will steal from anyone that make it easy to do so.

The thing that ticks me off about Naim, past, present or future is they will not sell parts to customers, even if the customer can prove technical superiority and experience to anyone in the Naim distributors service department. Who else does that?
Open up your mind, in pours the trash. - Meat Puppets, 1987

 

Bingo..., posted on May 15, 2015 at 12:21:08
Vinyl Valet
Audiophile

Posts: 1346
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Joined: November 13, 2003
 Crazy Dave (not so crazy) nailed it. Naim does not want anyone looking inside their boxes or to see their schematics for one simple reason (I don't care what their official line is); stupid simple circuits and lots of cheap crappy parts. Most of the space is air (but it's magic Naim air). At least the case with everything I've looked at which is ten years old or more. They've got a great scam going so I don't expect that anything has changed in recent years.

And then there is their re-cap scam. Now I, along with most audiophiles, understand the importance of replacing electrolytic caps about every twenty years, especially if internal temperatures are high. Naim recommends every ten years in components that generate very little heat. Why? They charge 100s or dollars to change out a handful of of cheap caps, maybe taking an hour max in most of their components. Can't let the customer do this because Naim service techs have been endowed with magical powers, magical solder and magical parts that we mere mortals can only dream of. BT Barnum, blah, blah, blah.

Frankly, even at wholesale, I would argue that Naim is terrible value. Like I said, I did not last long as a dealer.
Open up your mind, in pours the trash. - Meat Puppets, 1987

 

RE: Bingo..., posted on May 15, 2015 at 13:02:02
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 - stupid simple circuits and lots of cheap crappy parts.

Well it is British gear after all. You wouldn't want them to go completely against the grain would you?

Dave

 

RE: In all fairness to the latest US distributor..., posted on May 15, 2015 at 13:15:01
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 My Grandmother MacPherson is spinning in her grave at Linn being called a British company, but my Grandfather Buckingham is snickering in his!

There are a lot of companies that don't want the DIY'ers as customers, but it is good to know about Audio Plus Services. Having sold audio equipment, I hate to see customers left in the lurch, like I was with my VSP Trans Mos amplifier, or my customers were who had Infinity EMIT and EMID drivers.

Dave

 

Manufacturer's who support their vintage gear?, posted on May 15, 2015 at 13:34:24
Mr. Dick Hertz
 Try McIntosh and maybe Audio Research.

 

Not only is Dave Crazy..., posted on May 15, 2015 at 14:57:42
Vinyl Valet
Audiophile

Posts: 1346
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Joined: November 13, 2003
 He's also funny as hell.

Yeah, tell me about it. The list is long. Years ago I thought I was doing my dear, stoner, potter bud a solid when I sold him a pair of Platinum Audio speakers at my wholesale cost. A year or so later I get the call, "Dude, my speakers exploded". Turns out he was, well, stoned, had a disc playing in the CD, turned the pre all the way up to see if that would work and then discovered the power amp was off. Of course he forgot about the CD player and preamp volume and ka-pow. Platinum was gone by then, all custom drivers, basically now unobtainium. Oh well...
Open up your mind, in pours the trash. - Meat Puppets, 1987

 

RE: Vintage Audio Equipment Repairs, posted on May 16, 2015 at 07:23:48
fredtr
Audiophile

Posts: 1987
Location: Phoenix
Joined: January 4, 2005
 I wouldn't be too concerned. Most repairs don't require schematics. And as someone else posted, when a schematic will help, just takes more time. If it is something I own, and the rare case when a schematic is helpful you can sketch out a schematic then keep it for next time, if there is a next time.

 

REL also sucks, posted on May 17, 2015 at 08:42:29
dadbar
Audiophile

Posts: 1675
Location: Portland OR
Joined: June 29, 2003
Contributor
  Since: March 25, 2006
 I had a similar experience with my older REL sub. Neither REL nor the US importer Sumiko would forward a schematic and REL made it clear that they were no longer making parts for my unit so if it needed repair, I was just SOL. When I disassembled it I found that there was very little to the circuit and there was just a loose connector. Caveat emptor.

 

Most companies will not provide a schematic, posted on May 17, 2015 at 09:02:56
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 I've found that almost if not all companies will not send you a schematic. In today's litigiousness society I'm sure there is a reason besides - screw you.

However legitimate tax paying businesses will ususally get a schematic if requested.

 

RE: Manufacturer's who support their vintage gear?, posted on June 1, 2015 at 09:46:27
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 I hope to do just that!

Dave

 

Ouch! (nt), posted on June 1, 2015 at 09:48:22
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001

 

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