Vintage Asylum

Classic gear from yesteryear; vintage audio standing the test of time.

Return to Vintage Asylum

Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

Pioneer 70's gear

97.127.205.154
Posted on March 22, 2015 at 08:49:15
rws
Audiophile

Posts: 303
Location: Minnesota
Joined: September 7, 2004
 I saw on the "general asylum" a post about Pioneer with the quote
"Their 60's and 70s receivers are being bid through the roof"
Is gear this old worth looking into. I imagine it would need to be recapped, etc? or am I wrong.
I've been contemplating a integrated amp or a receiver.




"Sometime I will have to give account of myself. How would the Father in heaven judge me if I followed others and not Him", Anton Bruckner

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
well..., posted on March 22, 2015 at 10:28:40
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 16017
Location: New England
Joined: October 12, 1999
Contributor
  Since: October 23, 2016

Some of it is -- there's far better (sounding) out there than the Pioneers, though -- to my ears. Of the massmarket Japanese stuff of the 1970s, I think that Yamaha got the sound (and, to my eye) the cosmetics best of all.

By and large, I am not too crazy about 1960s Japanese hardware; the American stuff was still competitive (and, not infrequently, superior) in the 1960s... especially the vacuum tube hardware (Marantz 8B, McIntosh MC-225, Fisher 500C to name a few personal faves).

Does 40 to 50 year old hardware need to be "recapped"? Well -- it's safe to assume that 40-ish year old electrolytics are past due. Others may be OK (although by and large the capacitors of today actually are superior to the old ones -- even when the latter were new).

Just a whole passel o' my own opinions, of course. No more, no less.
all the best,
mrh

 

RE: Pioneer 70's gear, posted on March 22, 2015 at 12:21:00
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 Recapped, yes. However look at the construction. Metal, not plastic. Discrete parts, including TO3 metal case power transistors.

1970s and VERY early 1980s Japanese consumer electronics was a superb value that drove American manufacturers out of business. American brands remained, but production was sent to the orient.

By the mid 1980s, the quality of Japanese mass market consumer electronics had significantly declined.


Eli D.

 

I forgot to ask, posted on March 22, 2015 at 13:21:14
rws
Audiophile

Posts: 303
Location: Minnesota
Joined: September 7, 2004
 about another part of buying vintage, would be, can speaker terminal connections be easily converted. Most vintage I see uses a type of tension clip for bare wire(unless I am missing others) and my present cables have bananas. I really don't want to buy more cables




"Sometime I will have to give account of myself. How would the Father in heaven judge me if I followed others and not Him", Anton Bruckner

 

Speaker wire clips, posted on March 22, 2015 at 13:40:33
BigguyinATL
Manufacturer

Posts: 3475
Joined: April 10, 2002
 are not necessarily terrible - just require care on installation. 5-way binding post better and Speak-On the best and safest. Note that the old receivers often offered three pair of connections - and always two pairs (A&B) providing lots of "space" for redoing the spring connectors
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius

 

RE: I forgot to ask, posted on March 22, 2015 at 13:59:54
cloudwalker
Audiophile

Posts: 634
Location: central wa
Joined: September 27, 2012
 I own 3 older Pioneer receivers...2 of them have banana type speaker terminals and 1 does not. In my experience, better components tend to have banana type speaker terminals more often in an effort to make their products "look" better...

 

RE: Pioneer 70's gear, posted on March 22, 2015 at 14:29:52
fstein
Audiophile

Posts: 2996
Location: fstein
Joined: May 18, 2006
 Get a Pioneer 780 receiver, recap it and while you are looking, get a pair of HPM 100 speakers.

 

RE: well..., posted on March 22, 2015 at 14:32:41
fstein
Audiophile

Posts: 2996
Location: fstein
Joined: May 18, 2006
 Even tho I posted about the Pioneer receivers etc I wound up buying a Sony STR V4 (Their last receiver with discrete components) which I use as backup. So far, caps are good.

 

which two models, posted on March 22, 2015 at 15:06:54
rws
Audiophile

Posts: 303
Location: Minnesota
Joined: September 7, 2004
 have the banana terminals. I browsed ebay and did not see any




"Sometime I will have to give account of myself. How would the Father in heaven judge me if I followed others and not Him", Anton Bruckner

 

I'll take the one on the right...., posted on March 22, 2015 at 16:56:15
reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13133
Location: CT
Joined: June 7, 2005
Contributor
  Since: January 19, 2010
 I agree, Yamaha got it more "right" than any other mass market vendor in the 1970s.

Nice CR-2020.

Dean.




reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

RE: Pioneer 70's gear, posted on March 22, 2015 at 18:30:05
sony6060
Audiophile

Posts: 1465
Location: USA
Joined: August 8, 2014
 The high power Pioneer 70s gear have followers. The Sony STR-6060FW is the best sounding Japanese SS gear I heard.

 

RE: which two models, posted on March 22, 2015 at 18:47:37
cloudwalker
Audiophile

Posts: 634
Location: central wa
Joined: September 27, 2012
 VSX D1S (MSRP of $1,500) and I just realized the other one is not from the 70's.. VSX 1014TX but has banana plugs.

 

Advertising got the work done..., posted on March 22, 2015 at 19:06:45
kff
Audiophile

Posts: 1033
Location: SE PA
Joined: October 19, 2006
 Pioneer made everything under the sun.
They advertised it on the inside front cover two-pages worth, back cover and all over the magazines in the day.

For this reason Tom, Dick and Harry rolled to the local dealer dying to buy the BIG pioneer but they could only afford the little guy and today, well T, D & H have the wherewithal to buy what they want and have bid up the Pioneers well past their performance level.

But they are well built and have some of the best service manuals around. All the gear back then was generally discrete and easily repaired with parts available today.

As the Yen started to rise in value the size of the transformers started getting smaller and the major brands decided to make gear selections for the public, building a stack of gear to stuff into a glass-fronted cabinet and provide a pair of speakers the same size as that cabinet. Junk mostly and the end of most decent vintage gear, 1983-1985.

As stated there are better brands. I'm not naming my preference because folks search the web and learn, upping demand and prices.

No way in hell is a Pioneer SX-1980 worth the 3 grand it can get. For 3 grand one can get a really nice preamp poweramp and tuner with money left over.

DAng vintage craze, just like muscle cars.

 

Couldnt agree more. Too funny as I was just saying the same of the 1980 to a friend, posted on March 22, 2015 at 19:45:23
2chJunkie
Audiophile

Posts: 1057
Joined: March 2, 2002
 He was asking me about it as a friend of his may have a lead on a troubled one.

I was telling him how its really far from a good option short of turning it for a better setup. I told him how it is a complete nightmare to work on. Also the cost to rebuild it properly would be a crazy sum minus unit purchase alone. Even on a fluke you get it for say $100-500 your still going to spend more than that just to do a basic rebuild. Heck a full rebuild would be double that Id guess. AND FOR WHAT!

Not that its a bad receiver. Just like you say, when approaching $1K-2 your well in the range of FAR better gear IMO.

I remember not long ago a fellow on another site was selling a lovely Aragon 4004 for around $700. Now we are looking at a 200 WPC amp that can drive any speaker out there no problem and sound wonderful doing so. Incredibly well made. Easy to service (by comparison especially). To me a 4004 and a 1980 are not even in the same ball park. Again not that a 1980 is terrible. Just totally different beasts on many levels. Heck for $1K and under you could grab a used Parasound HCA amp and preamp. Again a better option IMO. Then like you say at $3K you should have your head examined and or been someone for an actor to base a character off of in Wolf of Wallstreet LOL...

Then I come to learn his bud has a pair of vintage Altec speakers. Oh good lord... Why not tow your Honda Spree home with your friend's 18 wheeler :) Just as desirable effects.

I mentioned to him right now in our area on Clist someone (prob someone on this forum LOL) has a HK 730 for $150 and another fellow has a slightly over priced Pioneer SX-1010 for $600. If his bud listens at normal levels that 730 would be an end all. If he listens at levels to shake the walls grab the man that started it all, the 1010. He could have the best of either world for sane $. If he has to go vintage receiver couldnt go wrong with either. And have a rebuild for a reasonable sum.

Heck buy a rebuilt Dynaco tube and a home made pre for under $1K.

Anyway it is funny where the vintage scene has gone. Still plenty of great options for reasonable money. Just as Public Enemy says, Dont Believe the Hype ;)

 

RE: which two models, posted on March 23, 2015 at 09:02:44
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 Noel Lee started selling his Monster Cable door to door in 1979. I think Fulton was making speaker cable in the early 70's, but he was on the fringe, so there was no reason in the 70's for a mass market manufacturer to make any thing other than a connector for bare wire. It wasn't until the 80's that you saw mainstream manufacturers using anything but push connectors, and that was only on the more expensive gear. I sold a lot of monster with pin connectors in the 80's.

Dave

 

the SX-1980, posted on March 23, 2015 at 10:19:15
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 16017
Location: New England
Joined: October 12, 1999
Contributor
  Since: October 23, 2016
 ... was designed as a 'statement' piece -- but not the kind of statement that spawned, e.g., Pioneer's TAD effort.

The 'statement' -- how much stuff, colored lights, knobs/buttons and - oh yes - FTC 1974-compliant watts-per-channel can we stuff into a big box.

SX-1980p1

Actually (OK, "arguably" is probably a fairer choice of word), Pioneer didn't win 'the receiver war'. In terms of sheer output power, Technics beat them with a higher-power (albeit more cheezily constructed) entry...

SA1000

... and "Marantz" (Superscope) certainly bested 'em in terms of sheer Rococo over-the-top aesthetics...

2600

Still kind of a mystery why anyone thought that stuffing all of those heat-producing components into one (relatively speaking) small but supremely heavy box was a good idea.

So, from my perspective: If one actually wants a Pioneer 1970s-era ss receiver... and one's intent is actually to listen to it... something like an SX-727 or X-737 would be a reasonable - and even reasonably cost-effective - choice. The latter has the option of NOT requiring the goofy polarized speaker plugs required by the former.

727-2

(of course, just my hardly-humble opinions)

GMMcatalog

all the best,
mrh

 

Thanks, I've never seen that Marantz ..., posted on March 23, 2015 at 12:24:56
reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13133
Location: CT
Joined: June 7, 2005
Contributor
  Since: January 19, 2010
 It's not my cup of tea, aesthetically.

I like this though ...



My favorite TOTL receiver from back then. The CR-3020 was quite wide at 25" ...but a measly 180 watts.

Dean.





reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

RE: Thanks, I've never seen that Marantz ..., posted on March 23, 2015 at 12:33:37
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 I like the look of older Yamaha too. It is much nicer then the 80's black units.

Dave

 

probably goes without saying -- I'd love to have a CR-3020, posted on March 23, 2015 at 14:03:27
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 16017
Location: New England
Joined: October 12, 1999
Contributor
  Since: October 23, 2016

Probably... ;-)


all the best,
mrh

 

another look at an SX-727, posted on March 23, 2015 at 14:25:07
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 16017
Location: New England
Joined: October 12, 1999
Contributor
  Since: October 23, 2016

I actually have one of these... although I don't really use it. It's not keeping the best company on the shelves.

all the best,
mrh

 

RE: Pioneer 70's gear, posted on March 23, 2015 at 15:15:00
eleiko2@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 207
Joined: October 4, 2008
 Receivers of the 1970s (Pioneer, Sony, Yamaha, Luxman, Kenwood, Sansui, Marantz, JVC) were built like tanks. I can't vouch for the sound, though my 1971 JCV sounded okay to my then virgin ears. Quality in build construction declined after 1980, though the sound might not have.

If you know a reliable source that can rehab 1970s gear (if it needs rehabbing and it probably does), I'd say it's well worth it.

 

So would I ..., posted on March 23, 2015 at 15:59:03
reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13133
Location: CT
Joined: June 7, 2005
Contributor
  Since: January 19, 2010
 Thanks for posting that picture again. I never get tired of it.

Having worked in hi-fi when the 20-Series was current I have a strong affinity for it.

I'd love to go back in time and do it all over again. It was such an exciting time for hi-fi. Folks would come in with records under their arms and spend a lot of time listening to different things in an effort to find what components made their music sound best, within their budget.

Contrast that with the norm of today ...a pair of shit headphones and an iPhone.

I miss those days and still use equipment from that era. I think (in terms of hi-fi) those were better times.

Dean.




reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

I prefer the looks of my Onkyo TX4500mk2..., posted on March 23, 2015 at 16:18:49
J. S. Bach
Audiophile

Posts: 9576
Location: Chester, SC
Joined: November 28, 2001
Contributor
  Since: June 29, 2004
 ...:enough so that it replaced several units; Pioneer SX650 or SX750 (not sure which), Kenwood KR6600, and an Outlaw Audio RR2150. Actually, the 2150 replaced the 4500 but was taken out of service (the 4500 put back so I would have something to listen to) and taken to Ribfest as a demo and just never put back in service. These beasts get quite heavy and shifting all of the patch cords can get old; well, unless you are Lily Tomlin.


Later Gator,
Dave
Find more about Weather in Chester, SC

 

Nice. I recently got 2 old school Realistic receivers. STA-120 and STA-235, posted on March 23, 2015 at 16:41:19
2chJunkie
Audiophile

Posts: 1057
Joined: March 2, 2002












Yeah it seems these older low powered receivers are often folks favorites.

I know Realistic often gets little respect. Some do some dont. I was really pumped when I read all the positive stuff about the STA-120. Seems this is the first edition too. A bit more P2P in its build. Even has bass mid high for tone controls. I know these pics are bad but both are in pristine condition.

Was so happy then I discovered the outputs on the 120 appear to have been replaced at some point. Oh well... For what I have into em it doesnt matter. Really unusual to see Bendix outputs.

Be great to know what should be in this guy. I wouldnt mind dropping the coin for whatever new production OnSemi counter part could go in it.

The 235 appears to be all original. Has Sony outputs in it. Must have been a decent unit Id think.

Once upon a time when Realistic made some halfway decent stuff.

Thought Id add to the party :)

 

HPM 100 speakers - Finest Speakers Ever Made [nt], posted on March 23, 2015 at 17:11:35
Mike Porper
Audiophile

Posts: 1414
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 28, 2009
 g

 

FWIW, I like the old Onkyo receivers a lot --, posted on March 23, 2015 at 18:50:24
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 16017
Location: New England
Joined: October 12, 1999
Contributor
  Since: October 23, 2016
 wish I had one of those, too...

Particularly nice tuner sections in the Onkyos (as well as nice standalone tuners from Onkyo in those days).

all the best,
mrh

 

I picked up a Realistic SA-1001 integrared for one dollar at a hamfest once..., posted on March 23, 2015 at 22:20:05
J. S. Bach
Audiophile

Posts: 9576
Location: Chester, SC
Joined: November 28, 2001
Contributor
  Since: June 29, 2004
 ...and except for a worn selector switch, it works works well and sounds nice. Well worth what I paid.


Later Gator,
Dave
Find more about Weather in Chester, SC

 

the one (ss) R/S receiver I' d kind of like to have , posted on March 24, 2015 at 04:57:17
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 16017
Location: New England
Joined: October 12, 1999
Contributor
  Since: October 23, 2016

Would be an STA-95 (or the lookalike STA-960 of 1981).

Actually, I wouldn't mind having on of the R/S receivers that used MOSFET outputs, either -- but they're too 'spensive nowadays (which is actually on topic for this thread, come to think of it!).



all the best,
mrh

 

RE: Thanks, I've never seen that Marantz ..., posted on March 24, 2015 at 06:32:20
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 I had one of those Yammies and to this day I REALLY regret selling it. Yammaha really did make some of the all time classic 70's gear. Both in looks and sound.

 

RE: Thanks, I've never seen that Marantz ..., posted on March 24, 2015 at 06:43:46
bjh
Audiophile

Posts: 18614
Location: Ontario
Joined: November 22, 2003
 nah, Marantz look $1M better.

;)


 

RE: another look at an SX-727, posted on March 24, 2015 at 08:28:17
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 I have that Lafayette!

Dave

 

Link?, posted on March 24, 2015 at 08:44:58
Mike Porper
Audiophile

Posts: 1414
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 28, 2009
 Would you mind posting a link? I couldn't find the post on the general asylum. Thanks.

 

RE: Nice. I recently got 2 old school Realistic receivers. STA-120 and STA-235, posted on March 24, 2015 at 09:33:07
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 That STA-235 was actually a very popular receiver. I think Pioneer was the actual manufacturer. It had decent power and a good tuner. It worked well in a living room, bedroom, or dorm room (where I saw a few). It has both sonic an nostalgic merit.

Dave

 

Top rated by Consumer Reports! ????!(nt), posted on March 24, 2015 at 10:01:44
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001

 

RE: Link?, posted on March 24, 2015 at 16:48:47
rws
Audiophile

Posts: 303
Location: Minnesota
Joined: September 7, 2004
 Here is the link, the quote I cited is in the first line I believe,

Bob




"Sometime I will have to give account of myself. How would the Father in heaven judge me if I followed others and not Him", Anton Bruckner

 

thanks for the praise. Yup much of theirs was good. And theres a reason some werent Id guess..., posted on March 25, 2015 at 08:14:12
2chJunkie
Audiophile

Posts: 1057
Joined: March 2, 2002
 Thats good to hear. It sure looks nice and on the inside appears to have been well made.

I know RS used Pioneer as an OEM manufacturer for quite some time. Not that they didnt use others. But yes for some time ALLOT of RS's receivers sure looked like Pioneer offspring!

I recently read on another site, in reference to the many reasons for RS demise... That RS was known for screwing over their OEM manufacturers efforts. They would buy products no doubt designed and built by whomever. Then pass the design off to a lower bidder. Clearly I cant attest to any of this first hand. But it makes sense IMO.

Really harkens to todays China knock off market many know and love LOL... Can you say alibaba ;) Really gotta wonder how much gets watered down in the receive and duplicate world. No question a good deal. Theres a reason its cheaper in todays competitive world!

Thanks for the input!

 

RE: thanks for the praise. Yup much of theirs was good. And theres a reason some werent Id guess..., posted on March 25, 2015 at 08:25:32
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 I bought a Radio Shack Auvio HD tuner when they were clearing them out for $30. It does have a plastic face, but I installed the rack-mount ends that came with it and it looks very cool in my rack of vintage high end gear. It actually works very well. It is loads of fun to surf for music. It is not the best sounding tuner I have heard, but it is not bad. The sound can be improved by connecting the digital outs to a good DAC. So even recently they had good stuff.

Dave

 

RE: Pioneer 70's gear, posted on April 1, 2015 at 19:01:56
michaelhigh
Audiophile

Posts: 839
Location: midwest
Joined: August 18, 2010
 I'm running a Pioneer SX-838 (1974, what a great year for music!)...

Very happy with it. Pawn shop steal for $200. My lust bucket from back in the day.

50 WPC with Klipsch Fortes from 1986, bifrost DAC, PC and 10,000+ curated files, winner winner chicken dinner.

Cheap and cheerful, to quote another forum.

 

Page processed in 0.047 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]