Larger Advents Revisited

24.148.217.249

Posted on September 21, 2014 at 10:01:48

mjcmt
Audiophile

Posts: 1445
Location: NC
Joined: November 29, 2004

I picked up a pair of Larger Advents and want to get my fellow Asylum members input to make sure I'm on the right track.
These are version A2 (dates ?) which remind be of the 'Original Advent Loudspeakers' I had on my very first stereo in 1970

1.) At one time the tweeters were replaced with what looks like the Larger Advent 5002 tweeters, which I read is the greatest Larger Advent built.
The crossover looks like Rev2 w/ the gray caps on this website.
http://baselaudiolab.com/ADVENT_LA_XO.html

2.) As you can see the woofers need refoaming, and I'm about to order this one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Advent-10-Metal-Masonite-Frame-Speaker-Foam-Surround-Repair-Kit-/131239001256?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item1e8e743ca8

3.) Later I'm considering purchasing the metal basket 10" woofer from Madisound, used in later New Larger Advents as well as the latest Advent 5002, therefore completing this pair as an Advent 5002? Is this wise?

4.) I don't know if you can tell but the grills are stained. Is it best to remove the cloth and wash them?

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Ordered surround kit

mjcmt

14:31:00 09/24/14

RE: Larger Advents Revisited

Bold Eagle

10:53:12 09/22/14

RE: Larger Advents Revisited

mjcmt

11:08:14 09/22/14

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Ordered surround kit

mjcmt

14:31:00 09/24/14

RE: Larger Advents Revisited

Bold Eagle

10:53:12 09/22/14

RE: Larger Advents Revisited

mjcmt

11:08:14 09/22/14

RE: Larger Advents Revisited

dadbar

08:58:15 09/22/14

RE: Larger Advents Revisited

mjcmt

10:36:02 09/22/14

RE: Larger Advents Revisited

unclestu

15:54:28 09/21/14

4

RE: Larger Advents Revisited

mjcmt

19:57:18 09/21/14

3

rotating woofers?

M3 lover

10:13:13 09/22/14

2

RE: rotating woofers?

Crazy Dave

09:07:27 09/24/14

RE: rotating woofers?

mjcmt

10:40:24 09/22/14

RE: Larger Advents Revisited

M3 lover

10:18:59 09/21/14

12

Classic Speaker site problems

mjcmt

05:44:28 09/23/14

2

RE: Classic Speaker site problems

JonM

09:23:17 09/23/14

RE: Classic Speaker site problems

mjcmt

09:47:21 09/23/14

RE: Larger Advents Revisited

mjcmt

10:52:46 09/21/14

8

RE: Larger Advents Revisited

DavidLD

12:25:52 09/21/14

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RE: Larger Advents Revisited

mjcmt

19:59:34 09/21/14

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RE: Larger Advents Revisited

DavidLD

09:17:11 09/22/14

RE: Larger Advents Revisited

mjcmt

10:38:19 09/22/14

RE: Larger Advents Revisited

HI FI BOB

06:50:03 09/22/14

3

RE: Larger Advents Revisited

mjcmt

10:44:35 09/22/14

The challenge

E-Stat

09:14:12 09/22/14

RE: The challenge

mjcmt

10:46:02 09/22/14

RE: Larger Advents Revisited, posted on September 21, 2014 at 10:18:59

M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6604
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
Since: July 4, 2007

Are you aware of this site?

Also I'd look to replacing the grill cloth, those stains will be hard to remove. Then as George said, there's shrinkage!

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net

RE: Larger Advents Revisited, posted on September 21, 2014 at 10:52:46
mjcmt Audiophile Posts: 1445 Location: NC Joined: November 29, 2004	I'm waiting for confirmation to their forums.

RE: Larger Advents Revisited, posted on September 21, 2014 at 12:25:52

DavidLD
Audiophile

Posts: 4884
Joined: May 29, 2002

In my view the 2nd gen Large Advent woofer is not an improvement on the first gen in terms of sound quality. It was, however, simpler and less time consuming and therefore probably less expensive to manufacture, A case could be made that the first gen is actually the better of the two woofers. Later generation tweeters tended to have a little better power handling capability, but I would not get excited about the other differemces.

I would try some oxygen bleach on the grille stains using a soft small paintbrush. Pat with a towel as you work. A color-safe bleach might also work. Steer clear of chlorine bleaches.

RE: Larger Advents Revisited, posted on September 21, 2014 at 15:54:28
unclestu Dealer Posts: 5851 Joined: April 13, 2010	do NOT take off the grill cloth ! The cloth has become brittle with age, and will shrink considerably and you'll never ever get it back on again as the edges will fray considerably. Also for better performance, although this may sound stupid, turn the woofers upside down.

RE: Larger Advents Revisited, posted on September 21, 2014 at 19:57:18
mjcmt Audiophile Posts: 1445 Location: NC Joined: November 29, 2004	Thanks for the cloth tip. I was planning on rotating the woofers 180˚ to counteract the effects of gravity after 40 years.

RE: Larger Advents Revisited, posted on September 21, 2014 at 19:59:34
mjcmt Audiophile Posts: 1445 Location: NC Joined: November 29, 2004	Thanks for the info on the woofers and tweeters. I will look into a cleaning product like you say. I wonder how some type of carpet or upholstery cleaner would work?

RE: Larger Advents Revisited, posted on September 22, 2014 at 06:50:03
HI FI BOB Audiophile Posts: 555 Location: NE. USA Joined: December 9, 2004	I have a pair of 5002 Advents and really like them. I think the tweeters are an improvement over the earlier ones. As for the woofer,I read something about someone comparing the new and old woofers and found them to be close in terms of resistance and other technical details. Think it was posted in classicspeakers.

RE: Larger Advents Revisited, posted on September 22, 2014 at 08:58:15
dadbar Audiophile Posts: 1675 Location: Portland OR Joined: June 29, 2003 Contributor Since: March 25, 2006	Someone once suggested shaving cream to me....I tried it on my Smaller Advent grilles....it did remove some stains...and they smelled great.

The challenge, posted on September 22, 2014 at 09:14:12
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 37666 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	I think the tweeters are an improvement over the earlier ones. is one of top to bottom coherency. While the newer tweeter may do better on top, its 1.8k crossover creates more discontinity in terms of directivity to the woofer. The nominal 9.5" cone is attempting to reproduce 7.5" wavelengths at the top of its range.

RE: Larger Advents Revisited, posted on September 22, 2014 at 09:17:11
DavidLD Audiophile Posts: 4884 Joined: May 29, 2002	that might work!It would avoid getting the grilles too soggy wet

rotating woofers?, posted on September 22, 2014 at 10:13:13

M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6604
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
Since: July 4, 2007

mjcmt, since the surrounds on your woofers are bad and require replacement, what benefit would be gained by the 180 degree rotation? I have little expertise with speakers but I thought the spider was stiffer than the surrounds so not as likely to fail with age.

I once owned speakers with Dynaudio woofers which benefitted from that type rotation. I heard scraping of the voice coil after several years and rotation cured that. The surrounds appeared to be in good condition but they apparently allowed some sagging which affected voice coil alignment.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

RE: Larger Advents Revisited, posted on September 22, 2014 at 10:36:02
mjcmt Audiophile Posts: 1445 Location: NC Joined: November 29, 2004	After laundering the cloth was considered a no-no, I was thinking of buying Blue Coral auto upholstery cleaner. It always worked well on my fabric car seats.

RE: Larger Advents Revisited, posted on September 22, 2014 at 10:38:19
mjcmt Audiophile Posts: 1445 Location: NC Joined: November 29, 2004	You folks have got me thinking. I think I will try Blue Coral auto upholstery cleaner, as it worked great on car seats.

RE: rotating woofers?, posted on September 22, 2014 at 10:40:24
mjcmt Audiophile Posts: 1445 Location: NC Joined: November 29, 2004	I considered that, but looking at the spider, there is a bit of distortion, so it surely can't hurt to rotate the woofer.

RE: Larger Advents Revisited, posted on September 22, 2014 at 10:44:35
mjcmt Audiophile Posts: 1445 Location: NC Joined: November 29, 2004	Very good. I will keep the tweeter and refoam the woofer. Then later I will rebuild the xover with the latest version shown here, since there is little difference in woofers. http://baselaudiolab.com/ADVENT_LA_XO.html

RE: The challenge, posted on September 22, 2014 at 10:46:02
mjcmt Audiophile Posts: 1445 Location: NC Joined: November 29, 2004	Thanks, later I will rebuild the xover with the latest version shown here to accomidate the latest tweeter, since there is little difference in woofers. http://baselaudiolab.com/ADVENT_LA_XO.html

RE: Larger Advents Revisited, posted on September 22, 2014 at 10:53:12

Bold Eagle
Audiophile

Posts: 6936
Location: America's Heartland
Joined: May 27, 2001

I've been through a lot of Advent experiments over the years. Your cabinets are obviously original walnut veneer cabinets with the original Masonite ring woofers. And the tweeters are certainly from the 4 digit series of Advents (5002, etc.)

I see two problems right off. First, the 5002 used a different, and higher order crossover than the original and New Advents; so it's unlikely you have a good match to the woofer which used a 1.6 mH inductor to roll off the woofer at 1 kHz. Even though the tweeter crossover is trying to roll off the tweeter at 1 kHz, it's properties are quite different than the original Advent tweeter; so there's bound to be peaks or dips. That original crossover also had a bypass capacitor and that boosted the highs - something that 5002 tweeter doesn't need. However, duplicating the 5002 crossover in its entirety should work.

Prolem #2 is the grill frame. It has a 3" diameter tweeter hole for use with the original Advent tweeter which stood forward of the front panel of the cabinet by about 5/8" and put the radiating elements of the tweeter right into that 3" hole. The 5002 tweeter is flush mounted and so energy radiated by the tweeter will hit the grill panel and the edges of the holes - that has to create issues with tweeter smoothness and the tweeters dispersion. I see two solutions to that. One is to remove the grill cloth and open up the 3" hole to 6" or more and then put a felt or foam ring around the tweeter just a but smaller than the hole size. I did that with my speakers when i installed New Advent tweeters and crossover. The other fix would be to cut a wooden plate to shim the tweeter forward so that the center dome is up into the 3" hole.

As far as the woofers go, the New Advent literature talks about a more robust design on the new steel frame woofer. I have tried both the new steel frame and original Masonite ring versions, and prefer the sound of the Masonite ring version in the midrange. They are supposed to be electrically and acoustically interchangeable and they are pretty darn close. The mounting hole pattern is the same for both; but the original needs a larger hole in the panel - so a steel frame will mount in an original cabinet; but the Masonite ring won't go into a New Advent cabinet unless you do a little carpentry. Long after the 4 digit Advents were gone and Jensen owned the name, Jensen brought out a Classic (AKA 25th anniversary) speaker with New Advent looking cabinets and steel frame woofers and a dome tweeter. I have a pair of those woofers, and Jensen really got it right as they sound exactly like the New Advent woofer.

The Advent grill cloth was an open weave linen; which has very little sound absorption. I tried several alternatives, and eventually wound up using either a fine textured burlap from a fabric store, or the black stretch grill cloth from Parts Express. The original Advent used a black gauzy material (something like book muslin) under the tan linen. It is a part of the acoustical design with the original Advent tweeter. So when using the original tweeter, I always made sure there was a swatch of the black gauze behind the grill cloth over that 3" tweeter hole. Yes, you can hear and measure the difference. With the smoother New Advent tweeter, or the 5002 tweeter, you don't need that underlayer.

I looked up your references about the crossover. That's the wrong crossover for that tweeter. Look at the schematic for the 5012 crossover from Basel. That's what you need, as it is a third order electrical on the tweeter, and first order electrical on the woofer which probably comes out as a third order acoustical given the woofer rolloff characteristics.

Jerry

RE: Larger Advents Revisited, posted on September 22, 2014 at 11:08:14
mjcmt Audiophile Posts: 1445 Location: NC Joined: November 29, 2004	When I did a search for 'Basel 5002 Advent' it gave baselaudiolab.com/ADVENT_LA_XO.html which is the same xover page that I gave a link to earlier. I can easily open the masonite frame of the grill cloth to accommodate the 5002 tweeter.

Classic Speaker site problems, posted on September 23, 2014 at 05:44:28
mjcmt Audiophile Posts: 1445 Location: NC Joined: November 29, 2004	I'm not sure the site is active any more. 2 days ago I signed up and have yet to receive the email validation yet. The site allows you to resend your request which I did 3 times, still no validation. I tried contacting them and the email failed. Since I began the process, now when I try to look at their forums I'm denied access. So I'm on my own with you guys help.

RE: Classic Speaker site problems, posted on September 23, 2014 at 09:23:17

JonM
Audiophile

Posts: 292
Joined: December 29, 2000

Just tried it - it's up. (Thankfully - it's a great site.)

Classic Speakers Site

RE: Classic Speaker site problems, posted on September 23, 2014 at 09:47:21
mjcmt Audiophile Posts: 1445 Location: NC Joined: November 29, 2004	I can look on the site, but when I sign in I'm denied access to the forums. Its crazy.

RE: rotating woofers?, posted on September 24, 2014 at 09:07:27
Crazy Dave Audiophile Posts: 14371 Location: East Coast Joined: October 4, 2001	I have to rotate my Spendor BC-1 woofers every year. Dave

Ordered surround kit, posted on September 24, 2014 at 14:31:00
mjcmt Audiophile Posts: 1445 Location: NC Joined: November 29, 2004	Ordered surround kit from Simply Speakers in FL. Should be here on Fri and will do this weekend. I am in the process of cleaning grills w/ Blue Coral upholstery clean and will let you know if it works.

Vintage Asylum

Larger Advents Revisited

24.148.217.249