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Instead of how many tuners? How many of you have a good antenna?

180.200.152.171

Posted on February 24, 2016 at 01:58:10

Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002

Given the parlous state of FM in the USA - so often commented on this forum - I am a teeny bit puzzled by the obsession with tuners alone - evidenced by this post - when there's almost no-one else than me posting here about antennas?

:-)

Here's my definition of a 'good FM antenna.'

One that drives (all) your FM front end stage(s,) on all your desired stations, into full limiting, with a signal that also has low multipath on it - from each desired station.

My serious system's 'tunah' - is a rebuilt simulcast rcvr with the power amps off.

It has a magic eye valve SS meter, and a three LED centre tuning indicator. A valve front-end with a Foster-Seeley detector, an overbuilt SS power supply - and an SS MPX kit by "Studio 12" from the UK, which feeds a twin triode valve in cathode-follower mode.

It's now driven real hard by the new antenna for which see my recent post.

It also has a wide audio bandwidth AM (-3db @ 13khz) stage. Driven by a 'random wire' antenna tuned with a vane-cap and a coil.

I don't listen critically elsewhere in the house. But on both the FM stations I bother with, and into all the other FM stages in use, we are in full limiting. Very quiet.

I do own one tuner, an old analogue-dial Rotel (324?.) Out of use waiting to go to my son. The rest are receivers. We have three FM wall plates in the house.

Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger

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RE: Instead of how many tuners? How many of you have a good antenna?

kingjim1954

16:38:21 03/07/16

RE: Instead of how many tuners? How many of you have a good antenna?

dxho

14:42:40 03/03/16

DIY & a WAF surprise! An Australian electronics magazine recently had a plan and article on a similar device!

Timbo in Oz

15:41:20 03/03/16

...

Show full thread outline!

RE: Instead of how many tuners? How many of you have a good antenna?

kingjim1954

16:38:21 03/07/16

RE: Instead of how many tuners? How many of you have a good antenna?

dxho

14:42:40 03/03/16

DIY & a WAF surprise! An Australian electronics magazine recently had a plan and article on a similar device!

Timbo in Oz

15:41:20 03/03/16

How about this?...

Steve O

11:21:38 02/27/16

Yours is bigger than mine!

Timbo in Oz

14:37:08 02/27/16

RE: Winegard 8300 Antenna ...

FRG7SWL

10:20:45 03/03/16

Just a length of CAT5 cable on the back of the receiver; nothing here worth anything else! )MT(

J. S. Bach

17:43:58 02/25/16

That's a bummer! But then again, there used to be only one good FM station here.

Timbo in Oz

20:38:46 02/25/16

FM in Australia?

Timbo in Oz

11:57:58 02/25/16

How many of you have a good antenna?

Jim Treanor

08:34:51 02/25/16

RE: Instead of how many tuners? How many of you have a good antenna?

PAR

05:22:49 02/25/16

Mats Gunnars

17:08:59 02/24/16

Eli Duttman

17:57:28 02/24/16

Mats Gunnars

19:06:32 02/24/16

Mats Gunnars

19:50:36 02/24/16

I do have one but it's not erected :-(

mhardy6647

05:37:44 02/24/16

You have my permission to wait until it's warm again!?

Timbo in Oz

20:05:44 02/24/16

I may go for an attic mount -- WAF, don't you know? :-P (nt)

mhardy6647

06:22:17 02/26/16

I do have one but it's not erected :-(, posted on February 24, 2016 at 05:37:44
mhardy6647 Audiophile Posts: 16018 Location: New England Joined: October 12, 1999 Contributor Since: October 23, 2016	It's in a box in the basement. Someday... all the best, mrh

Challenged , posted on February 24, 2016 at 17:08:59

Mats Gunnars
Audiophile

Posts: 387
Joined: May 7, 2006

OK Timbo-San, antenna challenge accepted this afternoon.
Decided to try my apartment dwellers best. 6 footer on the
Library table and I went from 61 to 64 on my RBRX1 signal
readout. Max is 80. Multipath reads 11. The 61 score is from
a circular closet mounted antenna. Both sound pretty good
at that level.

Not to be denied I took out the dreaded Signal Sleuth.
I have rejected it many times before. Today I installed
it half way to the receiver, in a different room, different
Power outlet, and with some mild conditioner. A bit of
Boost, and up to 80 with ease. 4 hours of listening to
WFMT, and guess what, my ears are not bleeding.
Perhaps the Sleuth is not so evil if applied to an already
decent signal.

Makes me think that working out a very clean power supply
for the sleuth might be a good idea. Perhaps even battery.
Working with the fm signal is perhaps as delicate as the
digital realm. The guys over on Computer Asylum seem to
get a lotta bang for their power supply efforts.

Best, Mats

RE: Challenged , posted on February 24, 2016 at 17:57:28
Eli Duttman Audiophile Posts: 10455 Location: Monroe Township, NJ Joined: March 31, 2000	I think I see a balun and the antenna itself is 300 Ω. If the unit at the other end of the cable has both 300 Ω and 75 Ω antenna inputs, it may be worth your while to hunt down some shielded 300 Ω twin lead. Some losses are incurred in the impedance matching balun. Eli D.

RE: Challenged , posted on February 24, 2016 at 19:06:32
Mats Gunnars Audiophile Posts: 387 Joined: May 7, 2006	Thanks Eli- RBRX 1 only has a 75 Ohm input. My Antennas Direct FM-360 is also 75 Ohm. I'm afraid dwelling esthetics dictates it's implementation. BTW, how do you know when you have driven the tuner "to limit"? I also noticed that when I amplified the signal the Multipath increased slightly, whereas the USN reading diminished. I don't know the significance. Best, Mats

RE: Challenged , posted on February 24, 2016 at 19:50:36

Mats Gunnars
Audiophile

Posts: 387
Joined: May 7, 2006

In a post from 2008 sgmlaw points out the logic of placing
amplification as close to the front end source as possible,
in order to avoid distribution (and other) losses. Connecting
the Sleuth with a short cable near the antenna allowed
attenuation of the amplification with by a not insignificant amount.

sgmlaw

You have my permission to wait until it's warm again!?, posted on February 24, 2016 at 20:05:44
Timbo in Oz Audiophile Posts: 23221 Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia Joined: January 30, 2002	But no longer! ;~)! Warmest Tim Bailey Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger

RE: Instead of how many tuners? How many of you have a good antenna? , posted on February 25, 2016 at 05:22:49

PAR

I don't often look at this forum as the US radio environment is so different to ours in the UK. Anyway I dropped by and saw this interesting thread.

I have a Ron Smith Galaxy G17. For various reasons this is not installed externally but is in my roof space (loft), NB: manufacturer's picture. This is beamed on the BBC's prime FM transmitter at Wrotham in Kent.

Interestingly it was the antenna used by Naim when developing the FM tuner that I use, the two box (tuner and power supply) Naim NAT 01. That has given me 30 years of daily excellence on BBC broadcasts. However it isn't a tuner that I would recommend for the crowded US FM band and it was very much designed for the conditions over here. I don't know how things are in Oz for the OP however.

How many of you have a good antenna? , posted on February 25, 2016 at 08:34:51
Jim Treanor Audiophile Posts: 2167 Location: Pacific Northwest Joined: June 1, 2003	A Winegard HD6055P 8-element Yagi with a refurbished US-made Channel Master rotor and 75-ohm coax to feed a McIntosh MR77 in western Oregon. Installed in Spring 2011 and enables clean stereo reception of listener-supported classical (about 40 air miles away) and jazz (about 70 air miles) stations. Jim

FM in Australia?, posted on February 25, 2016 at 11:57:58

Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002

In the state capitals and other cities there are lots of FM stations, doing pop and talk-back, lots of LOUD ads, and using lots of compression etc etc.

Then there's the national public broadcaster's - ABC Classic FM - which uses the audio layer of MPEG2 to distribute its signal via satellite to transmitters all over. They use minimal compression and do a lot of live acoustic broadcasts and have powerful main transmitters, like the BBC once was. (And JJJ their yoof network for all the aging rockers, which helps sustain Aussie popular music, I am told.)

But we also have a community radio network, so there are at least two good sounding stations.

In Canberra - which is hilly and has multiple urban centres in valleys, most of the stations are on one big telecom's tower on top of Black Mountain, and radiate 360. This lets most of them reach down into most places, then there are two more sites with TV and FM repeaters aimed down into specific spots IE not doing the full 360. We are right beside one of thembut it hasn't got an ABC Classic FM repeater.

I'm only interested in two, the local community one has its
supplementary transmitter on a mountain right near us. So mine is aimed at the big tower for ABC Classic FM. The other station comes in fine AYMVWExpect!

Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger

Just a length of CAT5 cable on the back of the receiver; nothing here worth anything else! )MT(, posted on February 25, 2016 at 17:43:58
J. S. Bach Audiophile Posts: 9578 Location: Chester, SC Joined: November 28, 2001 Contributor Since: June 29, 2004	Later Gator, Dave

That's a bummer! But then again, there used to be only one good FM station here., posted on February 25, 2016 at 20:38:46
Timbo in Oz Audiophile Posts: 23221 Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia Joined: January 30, 2002	The local community station is relatively new. Warmest Tim Bailey Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger

I may go for an attic mount -- WAF, don't you know? :-P (nt), posted on February 26, 2016 at 06:22:17
mhardy6647 Audiophile Posts: 16018 Location: New England Joined: October 12, 1999 Contributor Since: October 23, 2016	nt all the best, mrh

How about this?... , posted on February 27, 2016 at 11:21:38
Steve O Audiophile Posts: 12383 Location: SE MI Joined: September 6, 2001	...unfortunately, the state of FM radio programming in the US is generally appalling so the rotator rarely gets repositioned.

Yours is bigger than mine!, posted on February 27, 2016 at 14:37:08

Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002

So, does your wife like it? ;-)!!

I don't need a rotator, never have.

see 'FM in Australia' below.

Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger

RE: Winegard 8300 Antenna ..., posted on March 3, 2016 at 10:20:45

FRG7SWL
Audiophile

Posts: 2109
Location: NorCali
Joined: March 26, 2003

... methinketh, since '83. Replaced a Winegard wedge antenna beaten-to-shreds in 70-mile-per-hour wind-n-rainstorm by a long-since-removed pecan tree. Roter is Master Roter, which replaced Alliance-tenna roter. Antenna missed the KSAN-KZAP era, but received such 80s golden-era gems as: KDVS Davis, when Paris-n-Shadow were DJs; Quiet Storm KBLX from Berkeley, along with eclectic KPFA, which played Grateful Dead New Years' Eve concerts after KSAN went country; classique KRQR from Sutro Tower, along with KKSF's transition from rocker to smooth jazz; KUOP's par-tay rockin' Soul Patrol, who funked-to-the-P whilst moving transmitter location from Stockton campus' Burns Tower to Mount Oso outside Patterson; as well as Nevada County's voice KVMR. KPFA's 59 kw signal is damn-near drowned out now by Nevada City's 600 watt KNCO signal from Banner Mountain, which moved from 94.3 Mhz to 94.1 Mhz in '03. Pointing towards Bay helps, sometimes. Gotta use digital tuners nowadaze @ QTH to attenuate modern RFI sources. So Sony's now-classique XDR-F1HD tuner just sounds better with age. Only used roter to watch blacked-out Raider games from Chico's television transmitters on Cohassett Ridge. 73s para Sactown

RE: Instead of how many tuners? How many of you have a good antenna? , posted on March 3, 2016 at 14:42:40

dxho
Audiophile

Posts: 86
Location: Virginia, the colonies
Joined: September 24, 2006

My home-made yagi
Yes, on a rotator.

DIY & a WAF surprise! An Australian electronics magazine recently had a plan and article on a similar device!, posted on March 3, 2016 at 15:41:20

Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002

Not quite as long in the boom as that one.

(NB This response refers to my 'new antenna' thread, as well, and to posts at Central about surgery!)

But in talking to TMFW&F (click below), who also loves ABC Classic FM (and probably loves TV more than me) - about how I could build it and then do the work myself up on the roof, climbing up and down ladders, lowering and raising the big heavy, old DIY sleeved tubing mast .....
At age 65 and having had hernia surgery twice in the last year?! Silly me!

Well, she put her foot down.

In short I was NOT going to be doing any of that dangerous stuff - AND that we would pay someone to replace the existing array for both FM and DTV. We agreed on a maximum amount and it's now done, as you can see and read below.

We came in on budget - by keeping the old, heavy and strong mast, but bolted it to the house more firmly. So that's my DIY bit,

so far.

We will soon be re-hanging a random-wire AM BCB antenna from that mast - via another mast I built - to a neighbours place, but I think I will just be supervising! ;-)

Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger

TMFW&F?

RE: Instead of how many tuners? How many of you have a good antenna? , posted on March 7, 2016 at 16:38:21
kingjim1954 Audiophile Posts: 49 Location: usa Joined: March 29, 2009	Het, Timbo, As a retired designer of antennas for Satellite comm, I follow your dictum: drive your tube front end to the max. I have a rooftop APS-13 with rotor just outside Boston feeding my Scot 310E and it sounds great on WGBH classical.Hopefully you've recovered well, friend. I'd send you my email if I knew how.

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