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A couple quick noob questions for radio

128.157.160.13
Posted on November 21, 2014 at 07:26:30
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 1513
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 I said some of this just a few posts below so sorry for repeating myself. I've had an NAD 412 for about 15 years and always kept it in a secondary system and used it for background music. I really liked it and thought it sounded wonderful but never really considered it for primary listening. Recently I put it in my main system and hooked it up to a good antenna and am very happy with the results. This is clearly an option for dedicated listening, not just background music. So I've kicked up a couple questions over the last few days resulting from more careful listening and observing.

- Does radio auto manipulate dynamics? I've noticed quiet passages of music seem just as loud as full throated passages. It makes me wonder if radio stations dynamically normalize the signal to keep a relatively standard intensity. I guess you wouldn't want drivers constantly turning up and down the volume or being blown away all the sudden.

- The local classical station yesterday was playing a Mahler. There was quite a bit of sibilance, but of course you know its Mahler. Anyway, is that just in the recording or playback vehicle (i.e.turntable) or does radio have it's own unique susceptibilities to sibilance? What about tuners? Are some tuners more prone to sibilance than others? They are doing a good bit of signal processing and I'm sure there is potential for error in there somewhere.

Thanks

Nate
You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields

 

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RE: A couple quick noob questions for radio, posted on November 21, 2014 at 09:01:11
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 #1- ""Does radio auto manipulate dynamics?""

Yes most of the time by using compression.

#2- ""does radio have it's own unique susceptibilities to sibilance? What about tuners? Are some tuners more prone to sibilance than others?""

Yes it has unique susceptibility to sibilance. The biggest place is perhaps from the whole aspect of receiving an RF signal via an antenna. So many things can go on (wrong) here. This is why some tuners have a multipath meter. Multiplath would be at or near the top of the list for this. I'd say while certainly tuners will differ in spec that other things are at play too beside design. Alignment of the tuner and all the things one does to improve this problem on other components like CD players such as AC delivery, cabling and on and on are at play with a tuner as well. Good luck.


ET
ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: A couple quick noob questions for radio, posted on November 21, 2014 at 10:34:28
6bq5
Audiophile

Posts: 4387
Location: SF Bay
Joined: August 16, 2001
 Awe-d-o-file has a great answer -
I'll add a bit more context-
Typically the left end of the dial - public and college stations have less compression, and can offer a clear signal that is actually being broadcast at the licensed frequency-
Many of the commercial stations will, in addition to compression of the signal, push the broadcast signal - after compression - this is a bit like running your amps at or near clipping - except these are the signal transmitting amps - so the compressed signal gets some additional "flavor" in the broadcast - additionally some stations will 'over broadcast' which is to say broadcast their signal over a frequency range rather than at a specific frequency - EG: the station is licensed at 104.5, but they actually transmit between 104.1-104.7. this makes the Multipath dirty and wrecks havoc on adjacent stations - especially distant stations.

A tuner alignment can - especially for a tuner that can be aligned - offer great improvement in the sound quality and tuning ability - mostly because of the latter.
the other option is to tune the antenna both physically and directionally to the desired stations.

The Tunerinfo website is a wealth of information - and IIRC, the NAD tuners are well respected.

Having said this - FM is NOT a wasteland - there are some excellent stations that provide some wonderful signals that can be of quite a high quality-
Have fun
Happy Listening

 

RE: A couple quick noob questions for radio, posted on November 21, 2014 at 10:38:57
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 Yes, the left end of the dial is the best for many reasons! Thanks for your adding to the thread.


ET
ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

certainly not a wasteland, posted on November 21, 2014 at 12:18:42
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 1513
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 I really am enjoying the sound quality. The questions I asked were not a result of being bothered just curious about observations.

It really sounds great, especially in the soundstage. I think I get as good if not better soundstage than my record players.

I'm really glad I put it in my main system and even happier I connected it to a good station.

Thanks for the info.

Nate


You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields

 

RE: A couple quick noob questions for radio, posted on November 29, 2014 at 06:33:22
cdb
Audiophile

Posts: 2948
Joined: April 6, 2001
 1. Yes. Just monitor an FM broadcast from your normal commercial station with the meters on a cassette recorder or a CD Burner. There's very little level change.

Just saying "compression" is added is overly simplistic. In order:
1. Phase rotator
2. AGC (Automatic Gain Control)
3. Stereo 'enhancement'
4. EQ (Equalization)
5. Multiband compression & limiting
6. Pre-emphasis & HF limiting
7. Clipping

See the linky below for a rather technical discussion of these stages.

Then look at Orban products; the Optimod-FMxxxx series
"Could you use more punch? More sizzle? More overall loudness to grab and hold dial surfers? A cleaner, purer signal for a discriminating classical audience? Or just extended geographic reach?"

http://www.orban.com/products/radio/


2. Sibilance. I think of sibilance only as it applies to the human voice. ("Esss words".) Can't say I've heard the term applied to music, but now I'll keep an ear out for it.


Radio station turntables?? Maybe with the exception of some specialized vinyl-only programming, radio is 99.x% digital files either broadcast directly, or bounced via microwave relay to a nearby mountain top translator/repeater.

The playlist is assembled days or weeks in advance. That's why you can go to a radio station website, see the playlist, and the time the song was played down the second.







 

RE: A couple quick noob questions for radio, posted on December 1, 2014 at 11:04:04
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 1513
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 I may very well be using the wrong word. I think of sibilance as the scratchy distortion at certain frequencies, an example of which is often associated with the letter S. If sibilance is actually tied to the letter S then I am using the wrong word.

At any rate, I hear a scratchy distortion that is very similar sibilance at some of the higher frequencies in a violin. Does that sound like a set up problem or now that I have better radio I am hearing normal shortcomings of the medium. Don't get me wrong, it sounds great. I need to know if i have more fussing to do or is it just something to live with?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Nate

You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields

 

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