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antenna needs

70.139.57.6
Posted on November 11, 2014 at 10:38:56
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 1513
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 Greetings All,

I've got a wonderful NAD 412 tuner that I love. For a variety of reasons which are irrelevant I have never had it in my main system, I used it for background music. For another variety of reason that are also irrelevant I now have it in my main system and am becoming very annoyed with the ugly rabbit ear antenna I use.

Can anyone recommend a good antenna that isn't such an eyesore! I know it is hard to get around physics when considering antennas but perhaps there is a clever design out there that has enough clean gain to reduce the size etc...

The NAD 412 uses a coax input and I believe that is it. Typical of NAD it punches above its weight but is not truly high fi so absurdly expensive antennas would probably be wasted. I don't think directional antennas would do much good although I don't know much about them. I suspect the transmission locations are too spread out where I live to get much use out of a directional antenna.


Thanks for your time.

Nate

You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields

 

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RE: antenna needs, posted on November 11, 2014 at 11:58:25
6bq5
Audiophile

Posts: 4385
Location: SF Bay
Joined: August 16, 2001
 Couple of questions:
Can you mount an antenna outside? or in the attic?
if so - you then need to know the realative strength/direction of your target stations-
You can certainly put a dipole up in almost any location (though higher is better) and they have a small foot print-
If you can get into the attic - or outside - (on the roof?) you can mount either a Yagi - or Timbo's favorite (and arguably the best for directional gain) a rhombic - see FAQ section of AA for the whitepaper-
with a 'threaded input - 75 Ohm cable is what you want - you will need a balun transformer to connect the Yagi or the Rhombic to the extension cable.

Both the Yagi and the Rhombic are directional - so head to FM FOOL and get your directional survey - together with a compass you can orient the antenna spot on -
Happy Tuning
Happy Listening

 

RE: antenna needs, posted on November 11, 2014 at 12:23:22
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 1513
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 I actually have an antenna in the attic, I'll paste a link to show you which one. I bought it for off-air tv. Those cable companies have gotten their last dollar form me!!! It is just advertised for TV use. It has the 75 ohm transformer built in. It is described as a Yagi antenna.

The problem is my living room has the high ceilings and is not part of the attic system. There is no way to get a cable directly form the attic to the entertainment center. In case you are wondering, we don't have the tv in the living room. The living room just gets a stereo. I could run a cable outside the house or something if that antenna would do the job. Its great for tv that is for sure, great signal with no amplification!

Thanks for your thoughts!

Nate
You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields

 

RE: antenna needs, posted on November 11, 2014 at 20:09:02
6bq5
Audiophile

Posts: 4385
Location: SF Bay
Joined: August 16, 2001
 any chance that you can come down from the attic and under the LR then up to the tunner?
Happy Listening

 

RE: antenna needs, posted on November 12, 2014 at 07:19:11
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 1513
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 I'm sorry I am not sure what you mean by LR, but given the context you are asking if I have a basement or space under the house and unfortunately no, it is on a concrete slab foundation. I would have to come outside the house and then back in. This could be done, there are cable holes for former occupant's cable. I'm pretty sure the cable drops are no longer active so I would have to run a line which isn't that big of a deal. Of course I would probably need an amplifier after the 3db hit from the splitter and the length of cable. This is all doable. I hadn't considered it before because I just assumed the radio frequencies were different enough to make the tv antenna not relevant.

Is that my best option? Its a good bit of but pain but doable.

Thanks for your time.

Nate


You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields

 

RE: antenna needs, posted on November 12, 2014 at 09:44:19
6bq5
Audiophile

Posts: 4385
Location: SF Bay
Joined: August 16, 2001
 FM lives between TV channels 6 & 7 - that is why the Yagi is a great solution-

Go ahead and use the old cable TV cable - that is 75 Ohm -
You may not need a line amp - with the NAD tunner - try it first....
Good luck
Happy Listening

 

RE: "radio frequencies were different enough to make the tv antenna not relevant", posted on November 13, 2014 at 05:08:15
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 A TV antenna, while not optimized for FM, should still give you more improvement than your rabbit ears, based on size of the elements, and the hight gained by the attic placement. I know I've gotten some great TV signals from my roof mounted FM Yagi antenna before.

But why not try it prior to running the cable down to the system? Take the NAD up to the cable. I was going to suggest checking the NAD 412s signal strength meter, but a quick check of the owner's manual reveals that it doesn't have one. Do you have a spare amp and speakers you could test the tuner with in the TV room?

"I suspect the transmission locations are too spread out where I live to get much use out of a directional antenna."

The transmission locations being spread out is precisely the reason you would want an adjustable directional antenna. Omni antennas are weak, at best.

Take 6bq5's advice and check your house for FM reception on FM Fool (link below), and try taking the tuner to the cable hooked to your TV antenna first, if you can.

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.

 

Thank You !!!, posted on November 14, 2014 at 06:50:23
denden11
Audiophile

Posts: 360
Joined: March 4, 2001
Contributor
  Since: December 12, 2007
 FM FOOL is outstanding. Can't believe the amount of information and the quality of the report. Thank you.

 

Good idea, posted on November 14, 2014 at 12:21:32
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 1513
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 I have the antenna running to 1 tv and I do have a spare amp and speakers. It might save me a bunch of headache to make sure it even works, or trouble shoot the system and have one less variable to consider.

I live in Houston which has a television antenna farm but the radio stations are all spread out. I'm not sure how much the directional part will help.

Thanks for the idea!

Nate
You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields

 

You need an outdoor dedicated FM Yagi antenna, posted on November 14, 2014 at 18:08:40
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15166
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 They cost < $30, but you have to have a mast to mount it ON.

Maybe, you already have a mast if you have a HDTV antenna out there.

Hint, the HDTV antenna is far smaller and 'flatter' than a traditional FM antenna. I assume you are considering non-HD FM. I don't know anything about HD-FM though.

 

I hope it helps. Keep us posted. (nt), posted on November 16, 2014 at 08:37:50
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007

 

You're very welcome. It's a great site, and I'm glad you found it useful. (nt), posted on November 16, 2014 at 08:38:54
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007

 

it works, posted on November 17, 2014 at 14:38:04
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 1513
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 I checked it over the weekend. Now comes the PITA bit where I spend sever hours one day running cable all over my house and trouble shooting and swearing a lot as I find out where I screwed up. It will be worth it though I think, probably sound better and get rid of the ugly rabbit ears.

Nate


You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields

 

Good results are always nice, posted on November 17, 2014 at 18:46:33
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 But the work part (especially when it involves bleeding and swearing) generally sucks. Next we'll discuss falling off a roof while trying to extend your mast up another two feet, in the attempt to pick up that weak signal college station at the low end of the band.

It's good to hear you tried it, and are taking the next step. You'll be glad you did, I'll bet.

 

Mission Accomplished!!!, posted on November 18, 2014 at 08:46:34
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 1513
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 Thanks all for your help.
For those interested: I had to take the day off for unrelated reasons and spent the morning setting this up. We just moved into this house and it has had many iterations of cable and whatever. There are a bunch of dead lines running on the outside of the house. I've been slowly but surely taking them down over the past few weeks but there were still plenty there. I repurposed some cable that was already on the outside of my house as well as routing through the attic so it was really not a big deal. It took me a couple of hours.

Sp long story short the radio sounds great and the rabbit ears are gone! I am most impressed with the sound stage. The speakers are much less visible. I use KLH 5s which are great but less great at imaging so I am very impressed with this little radio.

It makes me wonder if I should think about upgrading the NAD 412. The 412 has that nasty habit of burning out the lamp. I gave up years ago and stopped replacing them. It sounds great, I doubt I could be it at the price but I don't know much about tuners. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks!

Nate


You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields

 

You are correct, sir!, posted on November 19, 2014 at 05:16:03
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 That's always the best choice, when it's possible. Possible, meaning WAF, homeowners associations, etc.

 

RE: "The 412 has that nasty habit of burning out the lamp", posted on November 19, 2014 at 05:25:41
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 It should be possible to put a resistor in series with the lamp to lower its voltage, which should increase its lifespan.

What lamp does it take? Do you own a volt meter?

Congratulations on your reception improvement, and thanks for posting your results.

 

RE: "The 412 has that nasty habit of burning out the lamp", posted on November 19, 2014 at 09:06:26
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 1513
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 The bulb issue is a real design flaw for that particular model. I bought it new and the bulb lasted a couple weeks. I replaced it a couple times and it always burns out. You can shine a light on it to see the display, but frankly I have gotten used to just knowing what station I am on. I am thinking of trying an LED, but I don't know much about how to match it. Its a low priority right now.


You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields

 

It really should be a simple fix, posted on November 22, 2014 at 04:54:36
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 See what the working voltage of the lamp is (often it's 6.3 or 12.6 V). Next measure the voltage you're getting at the lamp socket. I'm betting it's going to be at, or over the working voltage of the lamp. The lamp spec. will also give you its current draw, in mA. Then calculate the value of resister needed to drop the voltage (likely a volt or two), using Ohm's law.

Note that you're going to have to do the same measurements, calculations, and soldering if you switch to an LED, so the lamp fix is actually a bit easier.


It sounds more complicated than it is. When you're ready to do it, post a request, or email me and I'll be happy to walk you through it if you need assistance.



 

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