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McIntosh MX-118 FM stereo noise

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Posted on May 3, 2014 at 14:14:19
willcycle
Audiophile

Posts: 41
Location: East coast
Joined: March 18, 2004
Any owners of a McIntosh MX-118 find the tuner section noisy when listening to FM stereo broadcasts? The tuner is quiet when switching to mono. I think its because of the unit's sensitivity to HD radio self noise and not some malfunction.

 

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RE: McIntosh MX-118 FM stereo noise, posted on May 3, 2014 at 21:41:23
Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002
Do you have any other tuners to compare it with?

Are you certain that all the stations on which you have the problem are broadcasting Hybrid Digital signals? Try FM Fool to see if the relevant stations are doing HD.

What kind of antenna are you using? If the tuner is not being driven hard enough it will be noticeably noisy in stereo compared to mono. A good way to check for this is to find a close local station and aim your antenna right at its transmitter.

We don't have IBOC / Hybrid Digital here in Australia, but I believe switching to mono will kill the noise.

Two options if it is HD self noise. Tighter filtering of HD noise in the IF stage, but this can in some cases affect sound quality. OR adding a post-detection filter which shouldn't have any audible effects on\f the sound.


Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger


 

RE: McIntosh MX-118 FM stereo noise, posted on May 6, 2014 at 18:13:39
willcycle
Audiophile

Posts: 41
Location: East coast
Joined: March 18, 2004
I am using a round aluminum antenna (forgot the brand). Signal strength is high.

 

You mean the signal strength indicator is always well up?, posted on May 6, 2014 at 19:18:17
Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002
While McIntosh is a technically worthy company I don't know if this particular tuner-pre has a useful or optimistic signal strength indicator.

Optimistic indicators are / were very common - they show very good signal strength on almost all stations. This was so that the tuner looked sensitive to consumers.

A truly useful indicator would be more discriminating between stations. the best give readout in numbers aka digits of dBm.

How to tell? If you have accessed FM Fool, as suggested, you might find there the transmitted power of a strong station within 10 miles of you and a very weak station also within that radius. College stations down the bottom of the band ~ 90mhz are possibilities for weak stations.

If you can't discriminate clearly about their relative signal strengths at your home then Signal strength may not be as good as you currently believe.

I'll assume the antenna looks sort of like a basketball hoop but with a folded /double ======== tube with a small gap on one side of the circle? If that's right it is an omni-directional antenna. With very little gain It collects signals equally well from all directions all the time. It will be feeding a lot of signals into your tuner.

It can't help the tuner reject strong adjacent-frequency stations that are not in the same direction from your home.

Nor can it tune out multi-path. ? MP is reflected signals bouncing off hills, buildings, towers etc. At its worst MP is very audible in a car on FM, but even when it isn't obvious at home it can reduce the pleasantness of the sound.

In your most recent post above mine you did not tell me that the noise is on all stations! So signal strength may not be STRONG at all?!
That indicates i) that your tuner isn't getting enough signal and thus that the antenna and cable - as installed - are not up to the job, or ii) limited in the ways mentioned above, or iii) there is something wrong with your tuner. Or iv) all three.

Given that you didn't think it relevant, I suspect you haven't absorbed much of the responses. In short, unless you try to absorb all the points and try the suggestions both here and in the second thread you created above, you cannot know nor can you fix the real cause of the noise.

It would be a good idea to meet the second point made by 1973Shovel. In total you have been given a pretty complete picture of the possible causes within a coherent overview of FM stereo. I think the words are thank you.

Read all responses over a few times, and then get back to us in a new single thread. Okay? ;-)

I'm not in America but physics is physics.



Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger


 

RE: You mean the signal strength indicator is always well up?, posted on May 7, 2014 at 03:08:16
willcycle
Audiophile

Posts: 41
Location: East coast
Joined: March 18, 2004
I very much appreciate all the good information given. Being currently out of town it is a little difficult checking and responding quickly.

You are correct Tim in your description of the antenna I am using. It is an omnidirectional. I began using this antenna after my roof yagi coax cable degraded too much (I hate going up on the roof). As an experiment I can try swapping antennas to see if the noise, which is evident on all stations, subsides.

In my area I am familiar with the relative signal strength of stations my tuner can receive. While perhaps not as accurate as an analog signal strength meter, the led display does indicate relative signal strength with weak stations illuminating only one or two led segments.

Is it a characteristic of omnidirectional antennas to cause tuners to be noisy on FM stereo reception?

Cheers,
Will

 

" Is it a characteristic of omnidirectional antennas to cause tuners to be noisy on FM stereo reception?", posted on May 7, 2014 at 15:41:11
Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002
Well it is more likely, as I did point out a few times in my post.

a) Omni antennas have very little gain, none compared to a dipole. So on many stations there may be noise. They have very little gain because they are not directional.

b) Which your unused Yagi is. Did it have a rotator or not, and why in either case?

c) there is clearly something wrong with your 'FM reception and replay system'

d) There is a particular feature of the MX118 most of the components in it are socketed as in multi-contact sockets. Dry-contact sockets.

Given that you are away, wait until you come back and use the last thread up top, okay? ;-)!












Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger


 

RE: " Is it a characteristic of omnidirectional antennas to cause tuners to be noisy on FM stereo reception?", posted on May 31, 2014 at 07:39:43
willcycle
Audiophile

Posts: 41
Location: East coast
Joined: March 18, 2004
Indeed, the noise is a result of using the omnidirectional antenna. Perhaps when I get around to it I'll mount a proper directional antenna in my attic. For the most low volume I listen at in my bedroom the noise is not objectionable.

Thanks for all the responses.

 

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