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FM tuner recommendations

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Posted on February 14, 2014 at 08:18:47
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 Many of the tuner forums seem to be "dead," with little or no activity for several years. Perhaps they are going the way of many radio stations - to the dogs and digital! Looks as if there are still a some folks that appreciate radio here on the Asylum, so I am hoping someone will be able to give me advice.

I would like to add an FM tuner to my 2-channel system. The system consists of a Teres Audio turntable and an Audio Aero Prima CD-player, Cain & Cain Abby speakers. I use a Mapletree 3-postiion switch box to change sources for my Art Audio Carissa Signature tube amp. Position number three on the switch box is just waiting for the interconnects from a nice tuner!

I have read through some of the information available on the FM Tuner Information site; much of it is way over my head, so I am hoping I can get some "newbie" advice here.

I live in the Denver metro area; most of the radio stations I listen to have a decent signal. I listen to NPR and a really nice jazz station for the most part, and some stations that carry alternative and classic rock.

What 'entry level' but decent FM tuners should I be considering? I would love a vintage tube tuner, just because, but solid state tuner recommendations are welcome - and probably more likely candidates, given my budget. My budget is not very big, $200 or less would be ideal.

I understand that a good outdoor antenna is also somewhat essential and hope to get one of these as well, so recommendations for that would also be welcome. I would prefer one that can be mounted on a side wall as opposed to the roof. (Had to have a new roof installed last year and really don't want to put holes in it! We're talking about an amateur - me - installing the antenna, after all.)

Holly

 

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RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 14, 2014 at 09:54:23
mcgjohn@yahoo.com
Industry Professional

Posts: 501
Location: Midwest
Joined: February 5, 2008
 your questions are all answered on fmtunerinfo.com that site can give much more detail than whats available in a few blog posts.

happy listening.

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 14, 2014 at 10:01:43
openmind
Audiophile

Posts: 183
Location: Phoenix
Joined: November 8, 2008
 Hi, welcome. This board is pretty quiet but the tuner board on Audiokarma is active as is the Yahoo group below.

The one question is whether you need to bring in any weak stations that are next to strong stations; if so, the selectivity of a newer solid-state tuner may be critical.

In affordable recent solid state, look for Marantz ST-6000. In vintage solid-state, Sherwood S-3300 or 2400, Scott 312 or LT-112. In tubes, Scott 350 or LT-110 should fit your budget. (The LT Scotts are kits.) Other tube favorites are Scott 310 and Sherwood 3000 but not all of them are stereo so do your homework. Dyna FM-3 is stereo, FM-1 is not.

Timbo will be along to tell you antennae are critical in five, four, three...

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 14, 2014 at 11:16:41
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 Thank you for your suggestions, openmind.

I joined the Yahoo tuner group earlier today but haven't figured out how to do anything with it - there doesn't seem to be any way to search for things, or just read posts, you have to wait for email summaries (digests) and such. Well, the instructions say "The other and less disruptive way is to go to the FMtuners web page, log in, and read/post from there" but that didn't work for me, maybe because I sign in via Google?? lol - I will get it figured out, but "ease of use" and access to information is one of the reasons that I seem to prefer forums as opposed to groups.

Holly

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 14, 2014 at 11:18:49
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 lol - no doubt it is if I can figure out how the heck you access the information! I am a member but that is as far as I have gotten.

Holly

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 14, 2014 at 12:21:26
openmind
Audiophile

Posts: 183
Location: Phoenix
Joined: November 8, 2008
 Yahoo really screwed the pooch when they changed the layout of that and all their other group pages. From

http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/

at the top left select "Visit FM Tuners group"

Under the big picture of the tuner you will see:

About group

In last 7 days

130 new messages

Click on "New messages". To search for a particular topic, go to the top and find the box that says: "Search Converations". Type in your key word (e.g. Sherwood) and select "search groups". Good luck!

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 14, 2014 at 12:23:37
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 On the antenna front, scan the archives for posts made by Timbo in Oz. Tim has commented extensively about rhombic antennas. Such a device can be mounted in an attic space.


Eli D.

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 14, 2014 at 12:38:50
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 DOH! Thanks openmind - that makes it much easier to navigate around!

Holly

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 14, 2014 at 12:42:10
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 I will look into Timbo's antenna posts.

Unfortunately, my house does not have an attic...it's a ranch style from the 50's, no attic (and no basement,) so that sort of limits me to one installed outdoors.

Holly

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 14, 2014 at 14:18:33
HoosierAudio
Audiophile

Posts: 377
Location: MidWest, USA
Joined: November 28, 2005
 Hi Holly,

+1 on openmind's suggestions. The Marantz ST 6000 can be had for under $100, has remote capability, if that's needed and sounds very good for the price.

If you're poking around the FM Tuner Yahoo group, a set of mods for the 6000 was recently posted that elevates the tuner to within arms throw of the best.

HA

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 14, 2014 at 18:16:52
fredtr
Audiophile

Posts: 1987
Location: Phoenix
Joined: January 4, 2005
 I have tried quite a few tuners and agree with the other post, Scott tube tuners.

 

Longish thoughts! , posted on February 14, 2014 at 19:07:15
Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002
 Hi Holly,

Here's the 'executive summary' or 'abstract' - The ROI you will get depends on you (and your SO.) :-)! I've spent a bit of the afternoon editing / cutting and pasting but may have repeated myself! ;-)!

You should first determine what is the value to you of a good FM tuner, and a good? antenna for/while living in Denver, where your home is. You cannot pay someone to do this for you.

FM esp. in stereo can be a very good high-end source - IME&Opinion- especially where stations use very little processing and where they do a lot of live acoustic concert broadcasts, or replay them. I record for one such station, and our national public classical network is akin to the BBC's Radio3 - at its former best!

You wrote "Most of the radio stations I listen to have a decent signal." ? What does that actually mean, I ask? :-)! Because 'it depends.' It does indicate to me that you may not be living down in an 'FM hole'. Which can't hurt.

IMExperience a tuner with a tubed front-end has to be driven pretty hard to sound really good and with low multi-path* on that quite strong signal. Both aspects point us { ;-) } at a directional antenna with gain.

IE the very best reception / sound usually requires a directional antenna with gain - aimed at the cleanest - *least reflections! - signal in the air above and around your home. This _can_ mean aiming at a strong early reflection, because it is the cleanest signal for a particular station, for where your home is. A rarely exercised option! You really do need a topographical map, one with contour lines to really understand what you are up against. From the transmitters to you.

It is also vital that the radio-system gets to full-limiting when pointed at a desired signal. This a function of how much signal reaches the radio's front-end - from each station. Noting that I have never heard a tuner in overload and valve tuners are more overload-resistant.

A longish boom multi-element FM antenna - perhaps with a rotator - may be necessary. The other directional alternative is one or more DIY wire rhombics hidden under carpet or a big rug OR pinned to a large ceiling. A double Rhombic can be arranged / overlaid to give a wider arc than most boom antennas, while still minimising multi-path. Pointing their main axis at the desired stations is a requirement, so you will need to orient your house to the topographical map.

Rhombics also have heaps of gain - once each of the 4 equal sides approach / exceed the ~3m wavelength of FM.

Sooo - before you even consider a serious tuner AND what antenna?, you (both?) need to nut out, using say a cheap used SS tuner / the FM Fool web-site / your car radio - WHICH stations in the Denver area are 'truly desired' by you, and where each transmitter/s is/are. In case of more than one transmitter the one which will give you the most signal where you are. You may be lucky and find that some of the desired stations share a transmitter site/tower.

Then you'll know what you want to aim at. This lets you list you how many compass bearings there are that are outside an arc of about 15-20 degrees.

Denver is up in the Rockies - mountains are a great source of reflections which cause the problem called *multi-path. *Multi-path signals - even when not grossly audible - will reduce the listen-ability of FM.

I live in Canberra - one of the world's most spread-out capital cities - which backsinto three valleys / bowls of our own Great Divid(e)ing Range - right next to the highest bits called the Snowy Mountains. So Multipath on FM (and ghosting on analog TV) - both due to reflections - could be a big problem for some residents. Like us!

Selectivity? - and tube vz SS front ends. Selectivity is a function of several things: the antenna's pattern, the two station's signal level at your tuner's front end, and the stated 'selectivity' numbers for the tuner. So, if you had two stations very close in frequency, at much the same signal level at your tuner's front end - and on the same bearing from you, or close, you could be in difficulty. The USA's FM band-II IS very crowded! This reinforces my point about finding out what's 'in the ether' around you on FM.

A few tubed tuners are selective. Are there other issues with rejecting unwanted signals by older tuners!??

Yes! Other stuff transmitted by a given station. i) SCA signals and ii) HD Radio signals. Both can require a steep band-pass filter inside the radio's circuits. Another reason to find out as much as possible about the stations in and around Denver.

Happy to advise further.



Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger


 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 14, 2014 at 20:42:43
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4306
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 You don't have to be a member to access fmtunerinfo.com. it's an independent internet site. I look at it often.

 

I just received my Yagi antenna, posted on February 15, 2014 at 19:48:15
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15166
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 It is a 5-element Yagi design, about 6 feet x 5 feet.

My wife said: 'What an ugly thing! Reminds me of the sixties and seventies before cable television.'

Oh, well. I don't know whether it will give me nirvana, but I can say that I probably have a chance at it. I will climb the roof tomorrow.

(I think that any tuner $100-$300 is probably good. I don't know about Scott tube tuners, but I do have a highly regarded Audiolab tuner. Yeah, it blows all the other tuners I've ever heard out of the water completely. Sounds better than my CD player, even.)

I sure hope this antenna works out as the multipath in the valley that I live has kept me away from FM for fifteen years now.

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 17, 2014 at 06:19:39
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 Very true - and it is an excellent site. I was talking about getting info from the FM Tuner Yahoo Group; I am now a member but haven't had the time to actually start looking for posts of interest there; hope to do so this week though. :-)

Holly

 

RE: Longish thoughts! , posted on February 17, 2014 at 07:06:16
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 Thank you for your thoughtful post, Tim. Sounds as if things can get pretty complicated!

Yes, my statement that the signal is "decent" wasn't very informative and is not based on anything scientific. The majority of my radio experiences these days are via the stock radio in my car; I also have a tube based radio (made in China) that I purchased a few years ago; no antenna is attached to it, but it still gets the stations I am interested in. I haven't tried to use the tuner component in either of my receivers. So, really, I have no idea what sort of signal I have here for a decent FM tuner to pick up; I imagine I would be amazed by the better sound and by what other stations I might be able to listen to once an antenna is involved. I don't know what I am missing so I guess I am not sure what I need as far as sensitivity, etc., is involved.

Denver isn't actually in the Rockies, still on the plains but we can see the foothills and mountains from here so I am sure the mountains do indeed affect the radio signals.

I like the idea of using a Rhombic antenna installed on the ceiling - my house is single story but I do have 'cathedral ceilings' in the room where my audio system is located. I will have to look into that, though "orienting my house to the topographical map" may be a challenge. And how do you find out where the radio station transmitters are? Guess that info would be on their websites?? Is there a good tutorial for making a Rhombic antenna?

Holly

 

RE: I just received my Yagi antenna, posted on February 17, 2014 at 07:21:05
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 lol - it better work OK or your wife may be asking you to remove the eyesore! Really, though, I hope the installation went smoothly and that you now have the good FM signals you were hoping for.

The Audiolab tuners do look nice and get good reviews, too, but there are no distributors here in the USA - and they're above my budget. :-)

Holly

 

RE: I just received my Yagi antenna, posted on February 17, 2014 at 10:10:39
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15166
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 Well, it doesn't look quite as bad as I thought it would. However, if I add just one more antenna, the neighborhood will think I've become a police station outpost!

Anyway, the results are mixed. Some stations come in better and other stations come in worst. On the whole, the signal becomes more dimensional. Really wish I had a button for antenna A or antenna B.

I also have a Parasound tuner which always got mixed reviews. I really think that tuner design is largely recycled, so I wonder if nowadays there is really that much variation anymore, although receivers of the 80s, for instance, probably had some really good tuner sections that I suspect is gone now. The Parasound did better on the simple whip antenna.

My new opinion is cheap tuner, cheap antenna, or better tuner, better antenna is the way to go. A really good antenna on a bad tuner seems to overload it too easily, AFAIK or can surmise.

 

RE: I just received my Yagi antenna, posted on February 17, 2014 at 10:28:36
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 Sorry you had mixed results with your new antenna. :-( Is there any burn in with antenna's? lol - probably not, but maybe there is some 'fine tuning' that you could do to fix the signals that are worse than they were.

I am kind of in the "cheap tuner, cheap antenna" camp right now, simply because that is what I can afford. FM radio is not the main focus of my 2-channel system, but I am hopeful I can get something decent for my small budget.

Holly

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 17, 2014 at 18:38:23
Gregg
Audiophile

Posts: 1232
Location: New England
Joined: April 10, 2001
 If you can find a used Sony XDR-F1HD, you may be happy with that. Really good used FM tuners still fetch good money.
As others have said, some recent Marantz, Denon, NAD, and Rotel tuners are decent, but the very best tuners are probably vintage.

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 18, 2014 at 07:33:23
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 Thanks, Greg.

I am considering Rotel as well, have some of their components (a power amp, CD-Player and a receiver) in a couple different systems and like them. I know vintage tuners are best, but not sure I can afford the really nice ones. I would also like a tube tuner, but with solid state requiring less maintenance, and possibly no need for alignment (another expense that I am not sure I can afford) I may be going solid state for my first "real" non-integrated tuner.

Holly

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 18, 2014 at 10:35:01
openmind
Audiophile

Posts: 183
Location: Phoenix
Joined: November 8, 2008
 Rotel's all-time best tuner is the RHT-10 but way above your budget. The Rotel 990bx is a very close cousin and also highly regarded. Lots of Rotel fans out there. See the Tuner Information Center below for details.

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 18, 2014 at 12:26:51
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 The tube tuner that may be within budget is the Dyna FM3. A link to an article about FM-3 "care and feeding" is provided below.

As FM-3s take the jostling of shipment poorly, you will need to find a local technician to properly align any purchase you make. Once the unit is correctly aligned, the owner can adjust the alignment by following the instructions in the manual. A sophisticated set of instruments is not needed.


Eli D.

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 18, 2014 at 12:53:32
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 The Dynaco FM-3 sounds like a good one. I don't know anyone here in my area that works on radios/tuners though, so that might be a problem.

Holly

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 18, 2014 at 20:31:42
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4306
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 You might check out the Kenwood 5020. There's lots of info on the tuner site.

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 19, 2014 at 06:20:56
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 I read up on the 5020 on FM Tuner Info.; definitely seems like a winner. The only one listed on eBay right now is at a BIN cost of basically $500 because it has a "rare option." lol - way out of my price range, but I will keep looking.

Holly

 

" And how do you find out where the radio station transmitters are? Guess that info would be on their websites, posted on February 19, 2014 at 23:55:29
Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002
 FM Fool should have that information.

Go to FAQ here at AA for the Rhombic article.




Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger


 

You have to aim the antenna at each station's transmitter, posted on February 20, 2014 at 00:00:53
Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002
 It is called a directional antenna for a reason - its design. It gets its gain by being directional, and that feature also minimises multi-path from any station it is pointed at.

I'm reasonably confident I use the term directional - and explain it - in all my posts.

You probably need a rotator, so you can aim it where you want.


Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger


 

RE: " And how do you find out where the radio station transmitters are? Guess that info would be on their websites, posted on February 20, 2014 at 06:54:48
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 Thanks, Tim!

Holly

 

My 'rotator' takes about two minutes to do a scan, posted on February 20, 2014 at 19:45:34
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15166
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 That's about how quickly I can jump on the roof and spin the antenna around. It doesn't work so well at night, though, as I am prone to run into the rake sitting outside, among other obstacles.

I have an antenna switch on order, though, to switch between directional and Omni-directional antenna.

 

One Word--Nikko, posted on February 21, 2014 at 20:18:41
Lee of Omaha
Dealer

Posts: 1800
Location: Omaha NE
Joined: September 8, 2006
 Nikko tuners are cheap, and if they made a bad one, I've missed it. It's hard to pay more than $200 for one, and they sound very good totally unmodified. I've had a Gamma V, a Gamma 20, and a 3910 (I think). The last tuner I could find no information on, but I took a risk and it sounded quite nice. Cost me a whopping $43 on eBay.

 

Finding transmitters, posted on February 23, 2014 at 13:14:04
openmind
Audiophile

Posts: 183
Location: Phoenix
Joined: November 8, 2008
 Here's the link, there's also TVfool.com;

 

Holly! Get yourself a basic rebuilt good Classic SS analogue, knob and dial tuner plus 'rabbit ears' antenna , posted on February 26, 2014 at 01:39:52
Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002
 and start learning.

This may well satisfy you on sufficient stations.

Then you build a spread double rhombic or two - but only if there are stations you find - with the 'bugs bunny' - to justify that.

Free music - aka FM - might be worth the trouble.





Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger


 

RE: Holly! Get yourself a basic rebuilt good Classic SS analogue, knob and dial tuner plus 'rabbit ears' antenna , posted on February 26, 2014 at 07:19:08
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 lol - but which one should I get, Tim?!? And who sells rebuilt tuners? That would be quite nice, but thus far haven't seen any used SS tuners for sale where the seller states such a claim. Decisions, decisions....

I am looking into my rabbit ear antenna options; with that and one of the dipole antennas that came with a receiver to experiment with, I should be able to find out what stations I can easily get, and then look into making a Rhombic antenna or buying a decent outdoor antenna to improve the reception of weaker stations.

Holly

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 28, 2014 at 08:07:17
Brian Levy
Audiophile

Posts: 2438
Location: Toronto
Joined: June 5, 2000
 Criteria seems to be:
1) budget of around $200 - does this include tuner or tuner and antenna system?

2) sensitivity may not be a priority as you state you have decent signals for stations you listen to. Depending on the number of stations alternate channel rejection and selectivity may be more of a priority.

3) Tubes would be nice but not a requirement.

Later you mention you use 2 receivers but have not tried their fm sections. Why not? These would be the obvious starting place to determine what if anything you should get and whether you should even bother and simply go for an antenna. What receivers do you have? If sitting on a Marantz 18/19, McIntosh 1700/1900/4100 or one of a number of other great receivers you may already have a totl tuner. For instance the Marantz 18 uses the Model 20 tuner while the 19 uses the 20B tuner and these are right up there with some of the best. I have a Philips 787, a receiver that flies under the radar and its tuner if great. Equal to many tuners sell for 10x the price of this receiver. BTW, many times a receiver has a tuner section that is the same as one of the company's separate tuners and sells for much less than the separate tuner such as the Marantz 18 and 19 that go for about half the price of the 20 and 20B tuners.

If the receivers are not up to par, determine why and that will help in your search as that is a spec or aspect that may have a higher priority for you.

I live in a decent sized city and have fairly decent local listening. I do not need a tuner that is especially sensitive as I am not trying to reach 100 miles out so, a 5-gang front end and high number of i.f. stages and filters are less important. The more of each helps in sensitivity but reduces the quality of the audio as a general rule. These are attributes for those looking for distant stations, i.e. dx'ing.

A great tuner vs a very good tuner may not be that much different in the final listening experience. For instance, I used a McIntosh MR77 for decades. It is considered a very good to excellent tuner by owners. WHile I over the years had other tuners that excelled in some why, overall it had that near perfect overall balance that worked for me. A few years ago, I picked up a Philips 6731 then little known to me as part of a system I bought. Compared it to the MR77 and it was a toss up in almost every aspect. Sound was different, the MR77 being more laid back, slightly muted and for the first time I felt it was smearing the music and presentation slow. The Philips was more forward, on massed strings better separation but not like many other tuners that made them seem like just a group of violins each playing by itself with no co-ordination. Other tuners had similar differences but, went too far destroying that balance of sound. The Philips I learned after was one of those sought after by the crowd though not well known. However, in long trm listening there was something about it that seemed to make me lose interest in the music; something that did not occur with the McIntosh but, it took a substantial number of hours before setting in while with other tuners it took much less time. The swing for me was the Philips AM that is one of the best AM experiences I ever experienced and was the first tuner with an AM section good enough to actually have am in my system. It was a keeper and I sold the MR77 after owning it for something like 45 years (yes, that # is right).

I had decades ago bought a system that had a Sherwood S3000IV tube tuner and never pulled it off the shelf to try. I also had the matching amp that from experience knew it was excellent but my example needed filters so it sat. After some 20 years on the shelf, I finally had both gone through and the tuner blew me away. Sonics were excellent, sensitivity right up there with the MR as well as quieting. These tuners at the time were about 10% of the going price of the MR77 on the used market. Mistakenly, about that time I had decided that I was going to downsize and the first layer to go would be my tube gear. So, the Sherwoods went along with about 20 other pieces. A short time later on an offchance I decided to buy a Sherwood S3300 tuner. It was their 1st ss tuner and the circuit and design was used until they gave up US production almost a decade later. Sherwood was an engineering company and developed excellent designs and stuck with them, just making improvements and tweaks to make them better without going back to the drawing board for new designs that many times are not as good as a previous generation's. The circuit was still used in the SEL-300 tuner that does command princely prices today and the SEL-200 receiver. These were their last US lineup products. I had the tuner gone through before receiving it, it needed a couple of caps and the alignment was tweaked. Now, at the time the Sherwood tube units were coming out of the closet while the later imported Sherwoods had some following but these early ss units were almost never noticed or mentioned. Even today, they are under the radar and go for about as inexpensively as any tuner does.

I did not expect the S3300 to be as good as the S3000IV, as often the case when companies went from tubes to transistors. Well, I was wrong. The S3300 IS the S3000V converted to transistors and every bit as good and even better. Better, to the tipping point where while the S3000IV was the tuner that convinced me the MR77 could go but, not enough to make it go, the S3300 made me decide it would go as it did not introduce the fatigue I experienced with the Philips, had an even more balanced sound than the 77 and I had the Philips for backup. Over a year I found the Philips was almost never turned on and it like the MR77 was sold. The little and little noticed Sherwood had won the day against my long term heavy weight and what the TIC had classed as something like #6 in its preference list. A couple of years have passed and I do not miss one bit either the Mc or Philips. The question remained with me whether there was a difference and how much between the early and later S3300 did weigh on my mind so, I ended up buying a 2nd unit and had it also gone through, again only a couple of caps and a tweak on the alignment was needed. I now had the version with the FET only nomenclature and the last variant using FET with Microcircuits (the version used in their SEL-300 and 200 tuner and receiver) and running side by side I could hear or experience NO differences using the same antenna and downstream system. The quality of the units about a decade different in manufacture was the same, no cost cutting, no cheapening in any way.

I would obviously suggest if looking for a separate tuner that meets your priorities, seeking out a S3300 and have it gone through. The total cost more than likely will be well within your budget of $200 with enough left over to look for one of those indoor antennas such as the Beambox (think that is what it is called) or even the downpayment on an outdoor antenna though starting with a simple folder dipole ribbon may prove to be enough given your comments.

Now, if the antenna issue is a big issue and you have few or limited options for a really decent antenna such as a yagi, then consider a range of tuners that were equipped or designed to work with such a handicap. These generally have a very sensitive front end such as you would experience with a car radio. These usually have some provision to use either some internal antenna or the ac line cord and have a shorting strap between the fm antenna terminals such as the Yamaha CT610II or a terminal clamped on the ac line cord that can be connected to the fm antenna terminal such as the Sony TA-5055 tuner. I have both of these and these systems work as well and better than a folded dipole ribbon antenna in each case. The little KLH 18 also is in this group. They each have quite decent performance, good enough for a day's easy listening to Saturday at the opera or a 2nd system as a permanent tuner. I have the mentioned Yamaha and Sony and the receiver version of the KLH 18, the 27 and each works very well with these antenna options. Do not expect all tuners to work as well so just clamping a jumper from the fm antenna terminal to the ac line cord of any tuner may not do anything such as with my MR77 or limited such as with my Fisher TFM300.

Then there is the of the wall suggestion. There are a few portable radios with stereo outputs and even stereo on the headphone jack. The of course have built in fm antennas and some have a provision for an external. Sensitivity is generally better and depending on model the other relevant specs may be as good or better than most dedicated tuners. Sound wise they can be competitive with the average home based units. These include the Grundig/Eton Satallite series such as the 800 and their S350/S350DL units. I have a pair of the S350DLs bought for other reasons as I needed a portable in case of a power outage and my existing portables while still working are OLD. I have tried them as tuners into my system and for the then going price they were not too shabby, as decent as some of the dedicated tuners. The 350DL I have recommended to a few persons who wanted a system tuner, had need for a portable and had a very limited budget and for a couple as they lived in apartments or assisted living facilities could not deal with any complex or any type of antenna. I use one of the 350DLs in the living room/living space as it is where I "reside" due to my illness and have it plugged into the amp used on my television for fm and while the system is limited as a whole the fm does as well in delivery as my downstairs dedicated system. The is a guy in the US who offers filter mods for the 350DL to improve either the dx capability or the audio. It is available as a plug in kit (as I understand it) of installed in your unit. The costs either way are reasonable and one person who has had the audio mod I communicated with told me it replaced a Marantz tuner in his main system and he sold it to recouped the purchase price of the radio and mod.
I have not had the mod done though thought about having a dx mod done on one and the audio mod done on the other. If in my downsizing I were to get rid of all other tuner sources I likely would get the audio mod as the radios are not on the downsize disposal list.

Sorry for the long discourse but there are many variables and options and if you are not aware of them and focus you will get a shotgun set of responses and these could lead you on a path of a room full of pieces in your search. Hope this helps in some small way.



Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada

 

RE: Longish thoughts! , posted on February 28, 2014 at 08:32:12
Brian Levy
Audiophile

Posts: 2438
Location: Toronto
Joined: June 5, 2000
 Why not start with the tuners in your receivers as they are in-house with a zero cost component. WHat receivers do you have? It might be one or both contain very decent tuners such as the tuners in say a Marantz 18 or 19, Sony STR6060, 6120 or 6200, McIntosh 1700, 1900 or 4100, or even the likes of a Philips 787 or 786 and many others that to get an equally good tuner will put you WAY over budget.

You can always use the receiver as a tuner, just run a set of cables from the tape output of the receiver and turn off the speakers or pop on a set of resistors on the speaker terminals to keep a load on the output. A number of receivers use the same circuits as dedicated tuners of the same period and for a number of these the going price of the receiver is much less than the dedicated tuner. Examples of this include the Sony STR6120 and STR 6200 vs the 5000 tuner and Marantz 18 and 19 vs the respective 20 and 20b tuners.

Think about asking about what car to buy while having 2 cars in the driveway you have never driven. And not sure what you may or may not like about a car.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 28, 2014 at 12:21:20
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 Wow, Don, I really appreciate your long and involved post - lots of good info there! I will have to reread it with more attention, but wanted to quickly answer your questions.

1)The $200 budget is for the tuner only, doesn't include the antenna.

2)I don't know why I have never tried the tuner sections in my receivers, I just never have. The receivers I have are a Denon AVR-3808CI and a Rotel RSX-1055; both are 'modern' receivers and reviewers these days have little to say about tuner sections so who knows if they are good or not. I didn't even consider the tuner section as a factor when I purchased them because, until this year, I didn't care - I pretty much only listened to radio in my car. Not sure that hearing what a receiver has for radio reception would translate to what a dedicated tuner would have. I 'assume' I get good reception here - even my cheapie clock radio can pick up the stations I listen to, though the sound signature is less than desirable.

Holly

 

RE: Longish thoughts! , posted on February 28, 2014 at 12:53:49
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 You make a valid point, Don, but....

I am not looking for a tuner just for the sake of having a radio, I want a tuner for my separate 2-channel system, which, of course, does not include a receiver. If I can find the antennas that came with the receivers, I am now inspired to install them in order to hear what the tuner sections sound like, but my main radio listening will be with my tube-powered two channel system, so, as much as I would prefer not to spend money, I still need a dedicated tuner.

Holly

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on February 28, 2014 at 17:03:13
Brian Levy
Audiophile

Posts: 2438
Location: Toronto
Joined: June 5, 2000
 I do not know either receiver so can not help but, would definitely suggest starting with them. Listening helps train the ear and if you have a recording of something that is played by a station then you can compare. I used to do this when I had a very large record collection and I knew what the local classical station was going to broadcast in advance. Sometimes when I listened to something I liked, I'd rush down to the local shop and pick up the recording and then do a comparison. When I had my stores it was easier as we set up a mini FM transmitter and broadcast the recording and then listen to the recording through the same system. This can still be done as there are wireless fm transmitters available today for iPods, etc. I have one for listening to a .mp3 player I fill with old time radio programs, something I really like to listen to.

Just comparing the 2 units' tuners through your system will likely help in educating you as to what to listen for and strengths and weaknesses of each. At least a starting point.

I would suggest starting out with the tuner and then considering the antenna system. As you listen to local stations a folded dipole ribbon may be sufficient or an omnidirectional S antenna mounted outdoors may be sufficient.

Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada

 

RE: Longish thoughts! , posted on February 28, 2014 at 17:10:04
Brian Levy
Audiophile

Posts: 2438
Location: Toronto
Joined: June 5, 2000
 I understand entirely but if you could spend say $250 - 300 on a tuner or $700 for the same tuner which would you buy. This is not too far from the price spread between the Marantz 18 that has the Model 20 tuner in it and the Model 20 as a dedicated tuner. Sounds odd the receiver is less expensive but it is just the economics of the market. When new the receiver was more expensive than the tuner.

This is a nutty hobby at best.


Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada

 

I have made up my mind finally, posted on March 4, 2014 at 05:01:13
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 Finally made my decision, and I have chosen a tuner that no one recommended in this thread and from a brand that gets no mention on FMTuner Info. I will be getting an Eico Classic 2200 that has been modded according to Neff's recommendations.

I have read some good things about the tuner and I trust the opinion of the seller, so I think I will be quite happy with it. Besides which, I will be able to audition it in my system to make sure I like it before paying for it, so it seems like a win-win situation to me. :-)

Once again, I want to thank everyone who gave me their recommendations and helped me with this; I may not have chosen what was recommended, but I enjoyed the research and learned a lot, so, thank you, thank you!

Holly

 

RE: I have made up my mind finally, posted on March 25, 2014 at 14:42:54
Brian Levy
Audiophile

Posts: 2438
Location: Toronto
Joined: June 5, 2000
 Probable reason neither the brand nor the model was mentioned was EICO was not great at designing tuners. Their mono series are okay for local stations and being very simple are easy to work on. The later Classic series were at best on par with many average tuners, nothing outstanding or special. Not sure what the mods were done but possibly it could elevate the design. Their sound was okay and as they were wideband they may have made a good starting place to work from.

Many tuners can be modded to make them noticeably better but, that opens up a whole series of subjects when discussing what tuner what to get. If modding is on the list as a possibility then the list can include a whole lot of tuners. The FM-3 cited is okay as an entry level tuner and stock and in spec is decent but again nothing special. Again, with mods it can become again decent but by the time you invest the money, you can do better just by buying a better unit to begin with. That is the issue with modding unless you just like to mod for the sake of seeing how far you can go. For instance, I have a Grundig S350DL that actually as a tuner usin the line outputs is quite good but there is a guy selling mods for it either to increase the dx'ing sensitivity or to increase the audio quality for about $70. The radio sells for about that amount so unless there is some real need for it, financially it makes no sense. I have thought about trying it as it then can double as my tuner and portable radio reducing again my component count as I downsize but, I would not do it otherwise aqs it does not make financial sense.

If into modding, try the EICO HFT-90 mono tuner and go through it. A very simple design that can lend itself to mods as there is a lot of space on the chassis and adding an mpx should not be difficult. These can be had in working condition in the $10 range.


Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada

 

RE: I have made up my mind finally, posted on March 26, 2014 at 07:01:28
OakIris
Audiophile

Posts: 348
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 10, 2003
 Thank you for your response, Brian.

I finally hooked up the Eico 2200 to listen to it. It was OK, but it didn't really thrill me. I will give it a longer listen and try out more stations before I decide whether or not to look elsewhere.

Holly

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on April 20, 2014 at 06:38:38
audiogatorjim
Audiophile

Posts: 1190
Location: New Orleans area
Joined: August 4, 2001
 Holly,
The Kenwood 5020 is amazing but are not cheap these days. The Sanyo Plus tuners are very nice also.
I would recommend the Sony ST J 75. You can find them for around $100. It looks older and they are silver. Trust me, it is one fabulous tuner and it will not take a back seat to the exotic and costly vintage and boutique tuners. You see a few here talk about them and I think FM Tuner Info Center thinks highly of them.
Good luck.

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on June 16, 2014 at 23:02:31
Nick_G
Audiophile

Posts: 10
Location: north Hampshire
Joined: June 9, 2009
 Are you keeping the Eico Holly?

If not, then I'd also highly recommend the Denon TU-800. I have the UK version but for its combination of sound quality and reception it would be very hard to beat IMO. They should be available for less than $200.

Regards,
Nick

 

RE: FM tuner recommendations, posted on June 21, 2014 at 09:11:19
Grinnell
Audiophile

Posts: 709
Location: Front Range
Joined: December 23, 2007
 Hi Oakiris,

I live in Noco so I know of the NPR and great jazz station KUVO you listen to. I love their blues shows on Sat. I also get KUNC which has a great ( i think uncompressed) signal.

I use a Mac MR74, amazing sound not as nice as the MR67 but good clean rich sound. I have an antenna in my 3rd floor attic so i'm lucky. Also the HK TU9600 is pretty good and under 100.00.

 

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