Tubes Asylum

Questions about tubes and gear that glows. FAQ

Return to Tubes Asylum

Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

DEEP TRIODE!

144.83.35.24
Posted on March 26, 1999 at 05:45:27
Jack G


 
OK, my curiosity got the better of me. I finally gave in and got the Wright 2A3 amps. I wanted to know just what 2A3s sounded like, since my speakers are efficeint and an easy load, I knew they could do justice to 3.5 watts.
I also assumed that living with Wavelegnth Cardinals for almost 2 years would have prepared me for the sound. I was wrong.
Straight out of the box, even with the Chinese 2A3s there was no mistaking that SET sound. That organicness was there. As the tubes burned in, I noticed a deep wide soundstage, and very good bass-reasonably deep and tight. The sound was a tad cool and there was a touch of glare on some music, but the tubes weren't burned in. That was wednesday, Thursday, I got some NOS Sylvania 2A3s and popped them in. Suddenly, I was in another Universe. The music was warm smooth and HYPER detailed, but not in your face. The detial was just there, for the asking. The old cliche' that i heard things I never heard before applies. There was a *gentleness* to the sound, along with an ease you wouldn't expect from 3.5 watts. After fiddling with the drivers a bit, the soundstage was HUGE HUGE HUGE, but you only noticed it when you listened critically(like the detail). Images were organic bordering on orgasmic.
Now comes the wierd part. Every note *sparkled* in a way I never experienced before-not even with the Cardinals. This wasn't just treble(which was sublime, BTW) but every note. It was the first thing I noticed.
Pace and rhythem was excellent, the sound was fast, and made my cardinals sound like lumbering oafs(or 300W ss amps). Most of all they are far more musical sounding. This is just a preliminary impression-the tubes weren't burned in-running Ocean waves thru them as we speak. More to come.
Jack

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
Re: DEEP TRIODE!, posted on March 26, 1999 at 06:32:20
Rod M


 
Holding out on us, huh Jack? Guess you've got your weekend planned out!


BTW: Didn't know you lived at the beach.

>>>running Ocean waves thru them as we speak ;)



 

Re: DEEP TRIODE!, posted on March 26, 1999 at 07:43:17
MikeP


 
Sounds like fun. Now if only somebody would build 100db sensitive speakers that sound good for less than $2500 or so....

 

xclnt ..., posted on March 26, 1999 at 07:51:43
Stephen


 
... and the cost of this seduction would be?

BTW: I know of an orphanage in the desert that
provides excellent care and feeding for abandoned
Cardinals. Birds thrive in such a climate.

 

Re: xclnt ..., posted on March 26, 1999 at 07:54:27
MikeP


 
Hey Cardinal's love Missouri too. They even have their own ballpark!

 

Re: xclnt ..., posted on March 26, 1999 at 08:06:41
Jack G


 
price: $1.2K + better NOS tubes.
Cost: your sanity-you will never be the same again.
Two gripes:
1) power chord is captive(pity-its more than revealing enough for better chords) but no suprprise there.(some corners had to be cut)
2) speaker terminals are chintzy
Jack

 

Sounds like a sexual Innuendo!, posted on March 26, 1999 at 17:15:03
Scott Woebcke


 
What preamp are you using with the amp? Is it an all Wright configuration? How long do 2A3 tubes last? As long as 300b's?

 

Oh Jack !!!, posted on March 27, 1999 at 02:34:27
Lukasz F


 
You are telling me now ?
I just ordered a world prototype of the new baby from Ukraina: they are making an amp based on new triodes, never used before outside of strictly military applications.
These tubes are approx. 125 W each and have glass volume of 1 litre. (!!!)
The amps will be in two versions: 30 W SET and 250 W PP balanced triode, both monoblock types.
Whaddya say ?!

Cheers
Lukasz

 

INNUENDO=Italian for Preparation H, posted on March 27, 1999 at 20:54:27
Danny


 
Just couldn't resist that one.

 

2A3's....what..., posted on March 28, 1999 at 09:00:26
Bryan F.


 
....so you just took a dive into the 2A3 pool of cream. Glad to hear it. Also I am glad that you junked those Chinese tubes. Are there any Chinese tubes worth buying anyway?
Happy Listening....

 

hey!!, posted on March 28, 1999 at 09:13:39
Quest


 
I just ordered a quartet of Chinese made 2A3 for testing phase. Consider the price I pay i can only manage to grab a pair (barely) from an NOS dealer. Why don't I buy some good NOS 2A3?? I'm on my developmental stage of a SE amp. Anything bad to my amp(shorts, B+ overrun, etc) will definitely destroy my stash of NOS!!

 

OK..., posted on March 28, 1999 at 10:47:37
Bryan F.


 
....the Chinese might be fine for testing your amplifiers. As they are cheap if you blow them up by applying to high a bias or whatever. However the sound of the Chinese 2A3's as opposed to any others is the BIG question.

 

I agree.., posted on March 28, 1999 at 13:02:25
Quest


 
I definitely agree with your point.I need to "blow" some Chinese 2A3 before I set things right. I'll go for the NOS double plate later...

regards,
Quest

 

Yes, but...., posted on March 28, 1999 at 13:12:58
Bryan F.


 
...sometimes the Chinese blow up even if the amplifier is not at fault!

 

Re: 2A3's....what..., posted on March 29, 1999 at 04:47:39
Jack G


 
FWIW, the Chinese tubes are no great shakes, but they are $40/pair, while being cold sounding, they are better that any other chinese tube I've heard.
Jack

 

Follow-Up, posted on March 29, 1999 at 05:08:46
Jack G


 
After burning in for 72 hours, things got noticably better. Warmer, smoother, more deatiled, dynamic etc. This is like nothing i've heard before. Gentle yet dynamic, hyper smooth, yet hyper detailed. Extremely transparent. It mates well with the Wright preamp (duh!) Oddly, the difference between hi/lo gain isn't as drastic-Hi has *slightly* more detail and transparency, visual, but has a slight edge, Lo is smoother and more immediate. Downside? the bass below 60 hz is *slightly softer than the cardinals.
The intimacy and immediacy is unlike anything I've heard before. Saturday afternoon, I was listening, and there were chills running up and down my spine for hours.I've never been so connected emotionally to the music before. At times tears were streaming down my face. I was so overwhelmed, that I eventually had to stop for a while because I was physically and emotionally drained. This is what we shoot for folks. I will never view audio equipement the same again. This is a *music lover's* system
Would I recomend these amps? No, because most people don't have compatable speakers-these cannot be dropped into any old system. OTOH, If someone is just starting out, and willing to get rid of their preconcieved notions, and willing to search for the right speakers, I would recomend them. With the preamp, you can spend less that $2K(save money for better tubes tho) you can havce the preamp and amps, and put more money into your front end and speakers. This will *embarrass* your audiophile freinds. These amps absolutely stomp all over my Cardinals.
Despite what I've heard, they are NOT dark and sweet. When I put on a bright disc(Wavestar's Moonwind) I discovered new demensions in PAIN.
Enjoy,
Jack

 

Re: Follow-Up, posted on March 29, 1999 at 06:10:30
Rod M


 
Thanks for the followup Jack. Great way to spend the weekend -- overwhelming bliss ;)

Stomping the Cardinals, WOW! It's sad that so few speakers have the right efficientcy to work well with these little giant killers.


 

Disgusting ..., posted on March 29, 1999 at 07:58:09
Stephen


 
... absolutely digusting.

Next thing you know, we'll all have to chip in
for a warehouse full of "Depends" and daily
meal deliveries. "Course, you'll probably need
a housekeeper, as well ... wouldn't want those
pets gping hungry, now ...

The "Cardinal Orphanage" is open for business.

 

Re: Disgusting ..., posted on March 29, 1999 at 08:19:16
Jack G


 
Of course, these amps are only for people who like human voice and accoustic intruments. HeHe. Tho they do like synthesizers too-more detail and *texture*. The cardinals are sitting on the floor feeling neglected. I can't go back to them again, except maybe in the bedroom system. The may want a vacation for a bit...
Jack

 

Hey Jack, does this look familiar?, posted on March 29, 1999 at 10:06:54
Dave VH


 

The Wright 2A3 (picture above) looks like a solid, simple, elegant design, and from your descriptions, it sounds great, expecially considering the price. You've added another name to my short list of admirable tube manufacturers.

Interesting that even with recent price drops, the Sun Audio 2A3 stereo power amp is $1,200 kit, $1,800 assembled. It looks like Mr Wright has a winner on his hands - Welborne and Sun cannot touch his prices.

Dave VH

 

Yup.:-), posted on March 29, 1999 at 10:14:07
Jack G


 
The price is with chinese 2A3s. he also offers NOS 2A3s or KR 2A3s for an additional cost. Since I wasn't sure I'ld keep them I opted for chinese-and got NOS 2A3s at a good price. As for KRs, they will subtitue, but I believe that like their big brothers they prefer a higher bias to sound their best-another tube in search of an amp. These are autobiasing amps.BTW the 6SN7s they come with aren't very good-I swapped them out REAL fast.
Jack

 

Re: Follow-Up, posted on March 29, 1999 at 10:45:22
Edp


 
Actually if a recent show is any indication, there are a growing number of speakers being made/remade to work with the growing number/interest in low output amps.

Classic designs are being remanufactured.
Companies like Moth Audio is coming out with own line.
And of course there is Mr Edgar still going strong with new ideas/designs all the time.

Problem is to find the high performance at the killer price that Jack has found in electronics (somehow using the word electronics seems to soil Jacks descriptions)

 

Thank U Bryan (I get your point) (nt), posted on March 29, 1999 at 12:47:38
Quest


 
.

 

Re: DEEP TRIODE!, posted on March 29, 1999 at 18:13:51
Doc B.


 
Nice to hear you guys are moving toward the truth.
Re the Chinese 2A3s, I get this feeling that some of the stuff said is based more on hearsay than practical listening.
Personally I think the sonic differences between NOS biplates and Chinese 2A3s is fairly subtle, with the Chinese winning for bass control and attack, and the NOS tubes (yes I am generalizing to some degree by grouping all those gassy NOS biplates together) having the upperhand in smoothness.
Either is usually whupped in the delicacy and subtle detail race by a NOS single plate 2A3, for the obvious reason that there's only one plate and therefore less chance to smear the signal.
The single plate KR2A3 has quite a different character than any of these other tubes, more ballsy, definitely the king of the group for dynamics and bass control. It is the tube I recommend for folks with marginal speaker sensitivities, say <97 dB. However with more sensitive speakers the KR exhibits a bit of a mechanical sound compared to the other 2A3s. They also exhibit lower mu.
And so, like damn near everything else we work with, any of these tubes needs to be considered as a part of the overall system.
I suspect the Chinese might actually be the ticket for George's amps, which present a bit of the more traditional vintage tube sound and could use the extra definition. They also run the tubes pretty hard, which the Chinese tubes can handle.

 

Very interesting, posted on March 30, 1999 at 04:48:47
Jack G


 
I did find the chinese tubes to be a bit on the cold side, but with great bass control, while the NOS tubes I got are definitely smoother and warmer.
Since my Galantes can use the extra warmth, that doesn't hurt anything. Interesting comments on the KR 2A3. I heard they also prefer high biasing.
At the moment, I'm using what I beleive are RCA grey plates. From your experience, what are the different sonic signatures of the NOS 2A3s, and do you have a preference? Just curious.
Jack

 

Re: Very interesting, posted on March 30, 1999 at 08:29:16
Doc B.


 
We were listening to lots of different 2A3s on Mike LaFevre's Galantes the night before nyNoise (they are indeed very nice speakers, impressive once he got the tweeters padded down properly) and it was kind of a trade off as you say, with the Chinese taking a slight advantage to the ears of Mike, John Tucker, and myself. This was in Paraglows, not George's amps.

I really prefer the Chinese with my own speaks, so I may not be the guy to ask. The differences I've heard between NOS RCAs and Sylvanias are subtle, but I'd probably go with the RCAs with everything else equal.
One thing for sure, I wasn't kidding about the gas. All those 30's vintage tubes will need to be cooked for a while before they really come to life. I suggest just running them with no signal for an hour or two before using them the first time to wake up the getter and harden them up a bit. This will help tighten what is sometimes perceived as soft bass

I'll also add that a lot of people trash the Chinese 2A3s in terms of reliability. I think one needs to use caution here, because a lot of the bad rep came from homebrewer type guys who run them waaay over their rated dissapation. Also when they finally go, the sound deteriorates very quickly, not gradually like some tubes. I consider this an advantage in a way, you aren't likely to continue running a tube that is performing at less than it's best. We run them very easy in our amps, and they seem to hold up OK. The only problem I've noticed is that they sometimes suffer breakage of internal parts in shipping. We've had maybe three that broke in shipping out of the who knows how many we've shipped with our kits.

Now here's a real curve to throw at you:
I heard the Sovtek 300B when it came out and it didn't make it for me at all.
But - the more recently released single plate Sovtek 6B4, which looks like a baby Sovtek 300B, is very impressive. We have started to play with this tube as a substitute in some of our 2A3 designs and it's pretty amazing,rather like a single plate 2A3 in terms of delicacy and information recovery but with ample bass, although unfortunately a bit hummy with AC on the filaments.
After scoping this list for a week I get the feeling there's not many folks who care to go much beyond tube rolling in terms of equipment mods, but I must say if you are inclined to hard core hacking, scabbing a Sovtek 6B4 and the appropriate filament supply into a 2A3 amp might really be a hot tip.
If you liked your Galantes on George's amps... you should hear 'em on Paraglows.

 

Thank you, posted on March 30, 1999 at 09:02:25
Jack G


 
My initial impressions of the Chinese tubes were that they were a touch cool, with a touch of glare.I may have to give them another chance tho. As for the NOS tubes-they are from the 50s(the ones I have) and have less gas in them then the chinese ones-less blue glow than chinese.Thank you for your honesty-will give the chinese ones another listen
Jack

 

BTW..., posted on March 30, 1999 at 12:58:38
Jack G


 
If the KRs are mechanical sounding, why does Rosneberg love them so much?
I'm not an expert on 2A3s, but i notice quite a difference between the Chinese and the NOS tubes(late biplates), but I can easily see someone prefering the chinese tubes. For me- they seemed to magnify the George Wright house sound.
enjoy,
Jack

 

Re: BTW..., posted on March 30, 1999 at 14:58:41
Doc B.


 
I won't begin to vouch for Gizmo's tastes, because frankly I have difficulty finishing a lot of what he writes and can't say that I have read enough to know where he's coming from. Don't get me wrong, I like the KR tubes. I've pushed the VV52 as a very nice tube in the past, although it has it's foibles like any tube as well, and I think there is some serious competition to it in the form of the Valve Art VA5300.

If I offer an impression that may seem negative, please don't take it the way folks seem to take much criticism these days, that is, as absolute. Any tube will have some positive and some negative aspects for any given listener. From my own experiences, the KR2A3s are great sounding on a speaker of say 97dB or less sensitivity, and above this level they are very good sounding, with a slight mechanical quality relative to some other 2A3s coming through in the midrange. I sell them quite often as an upgrade to our amps, so I must think they are pretty good.

For another example I was touting the 6N1P for it's great sound a couple of days ago. When we listened to that circuit on a new Lowther front horn setup, we preffered the same circuit with a 5670 in it, even though it was obviously a bit slower. Doesn't mean I like the 6N1P any less, just that I might use something else for this particular preamp/amp/speaker setup. The whole system must always be taken into account when you consider anyone's impression.

As for my opinions: like they say, if you're looking for someone with a little authority, I have as little as anyone.

 

Re: BTW..., posted on March 31, 1999 at 04:53:11
Jack G


 
>>>frankly I have difficulty finishing a lot of what he writes<<<
Thank God I'm not the only one! I was beginning to wonder. He pushes KR WAY too much for my taste, making me wonder if there are ulterior motives.

>>>please don't take it the way folks seem to take much criticism these days, that is, as
absolute.<<<
Of course not, but talking(writing) to you gives me a hint of your tastes and perspective. Even if I may(or may not) disagree with it, I still find it both honest and refreshing. I agree that everything has plusses and minuses, and it is a balancing act and a matter of taste.

>>>if you're looking for someone with a little authority, I have as little as anyone. <<<
As far as 2A3s go, I have a weeks worth of experience.:-)
I still find your posts both enjoyable and informative.
enjoy,
Jack

 

Re: BTW..., posted on March 31, 1999 at 20:59:21
Estes


 
Dear Jack: I was wondering what speakers you were using.

 

Re: BTW..., posted on April 1, 1999 at 05:12:29
Jack G


 
I'm using Galante Buckinghams. 100db efficent, 8 ohm load, never dropping below 7 ohms. They are old altc 604 drivers, with an altered/improved x-over in a better cabinet.It is a concentric driver, and is phase coherent.
Jack

 

Page processed in 0.014 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]